Palmer Lodge is on the Market

[Jay]

Is there a way to make this thread private?

I think someone could move it to the Shire Society forum, which is private.

[Jay]

I just don’t think that there is a law that says that a resident must live in a domicile.

Homeless people can legally vote, so I never saw the issue.

[Mark_FTL]

Moved to Shire Renaissance

[Jay]

Would I try a Free Town Project today, knowing what I know now? No, I think it’s ultimately a waste of effort.

[Jay]

Living with a bunch of people you can get along with because of your beliefs, absolutely. Epic battles on multiple legal fronts with perpetual corporations that have unlimited time and resources to make you lick their assholes…no thanks.

[blackie]

If I and 50 of my roommates vote to kill off the relevant portions of the zoning ordinances, I don’t know what they could do.

When I was in Grafton 10 years ago, there is some rule in NH about how rescinding zoning rules take two years to go into effect.

In Grafton I think there was a warrant article to get rid of the two acre minimum lot size. Even though Grafton doesn’t have zoning, the two acre lot ordinance is treated as zoning if you try to get rid of it.

[Mark_FTL]

Blockquote Epic battles on multiple legal fronts with perpetual corporations that have unlimited time and resources to make you lick their assholes…no thanks.

I feel you, but it is worth noting that if we were able to have a religious retreat, of this size, we would basically have our own country. Not sovereign, but close. No property tax is a huge step to sovereignty. The Davidians are a pretty good counter argument. Obviously, the State could attempt to enforce a variety of laws, but hopefully we could learn from past mistakes.

My main concern about freedom is freedom from taxes for schools.

[Jay]

My main concern about freedom is freedom from taxes for schools.

Well, then it would be making it a Herculean task for a church by buying a property that exists in 3 separate taxation districts.

There are also lots of tracts of land out there that exist in much more amiable Towns in NH away from the socialists of the southern half of NH. Unless you want a war, that is.

[Mark_FTL]

Yeah, I think you are right about Keene, I am not sure about Roxbury. They are small and weak.

I do tend to get whipped up about properties and it is probably most true that it is best to just move out of the country to find the most freedom. The system is such that one must force others to bend to one’s will, even if one’s will is just to be left alone. People don’t take kindly to having liberty shoved down their throat.

[Jay]

People don’t take kindly to having liberty shoved down their throat.

A friend reminded me the other day that no matter where you go in the world, the urban/sprawl vs. rural divide exists. You know, consumers who would trade freedom for bigger shopping malls. Even though Keene is a tiny city, people there have the busybody mentality.

[Jay]

Here you go, Mark:

Quaker City Populated Place Profile / Sullivan County, New Hampshire Data

[Mark_FTL]

I’m familiar. I went to their Meeting House for Meeting a few years ago. No bathrooms, just a wood stove for heat.

[blackie]

I do tend to get whipped up about properties and it is probably most true that it is best to just move out of the country to find the most freedom.

There is still hope. Hope island is for sale.
https://www.privateislandsonline.com/united-states/maine/hope-island

https://www.newscentermaine.com/mobile/video/news/hope-island-for-sale/97-2663341

Turn it into a marijuana resort. Property taxes must be pretty high. Around $70k a year.

It was bought for 1.3 million in 1993, and something like 13 million was spent on improvements.

Hope Island (Maine)

In a dispute over property taxes, the two part-time residents attempted but failed in a legislative effort to secede from the town of Cumberland.[4]

The town of Chebeague Island seceded from the town of Cumberland in 2007. I wonder how hard it would be to have Hope Island secede from Chebeague Island.

Chebeague Island was a part of the Town of Cumberland until July 1, 2007, when it seceded and became the Town of Chebeague Island.[5] The Town of Chebeague Island includes seventeen islands and their adjacent waters. These include the islands of Bangs, Bates, Hope, Ministerial, Sand, Stave, Stockman, and the tiny Upper Green Islands.

In the 2000 Census, the year-round resident population was 356. In the 2010 census, the town’s year-round population of 341.[6] The population is said to more than triple in the summer months.

The owner was hassled for shoreline zoning stuff not long ago. In Maine, even if a town has no zoning, there is still shoreline zoning.
https://bangordailynews.com/2013/08/22/business/wealthy-maine-island-owner-settles-legal-dispute-with-town-for-100000/

It all began last year when Code Enforcement Officer Ron Tozier received a tip from local fishermen that construction was taking place on Hope Island, within 75 feet of the high tide line. Soon afterward, Tozier and representatives from the Department of Environmental Protection and National Resource Protection Act traveled by boat to the private island, which lies about a half mile from the southeastern tip of Chebeague.

The inspectors tied up at the Hope Island dock, but they “were refused admittance,” Tozier recalled.

Weeks later, the three men were finally allowed to inspect the island and they discovered four of the violations:

• On the south side of the island, the owners had constructed a path within 75 feet of the shore.

• Rip-rap walls were erected without permits or review by the town Planning Board.

• New construction on the southwestern portion of the island had commenced without a permit or board approval, and within 75 feet of the shore.

• A concrete pad for a pavilion was poured within the shoreline zone without necessary permits and approval.

The state’s Mandatory Shoreland Zoning Act requires “municipalities to adopt, administer, and enforce local ordinances that regulate land use activities in the shoreland zone. The shoreland zone is comprised of all land areas within 250 feet, horizontal distance,” of the high-tide line, according to the state website.

There has to be an island for sale somewhere with a low tax burden.

For a NH property, having some kind of private beach seems important if you want to attract people. I always feel like that is missing from Rodgers campground.

[Jay]

It was bought for 1.3 million in 1993, and something like 13 million was spent on improvements.

I guess an island is just nature’s version of a boat, same kind of money pit.

[blackie]

I guess an island is just nature’s version of a boat, same kind of money pit.

Yeah, it has be 2-3x more expensive to build on an island. And maintenance has to be horrible. I worked at a bed and breakfast on the Jersey shore for a few summers and the porch side facing the ocean had be repainted every year. An island in the ocean has be much worse.

Here is an article about the guy and his wife trying to create the “Town of Hope Island.” Maybe there is no hope.

Couple Seek Shelter From Taxing Problem

In recent years, the Cacoulidises have gone on a building spree. They have built a separate 3,300-square-foot guest house, a boathouse with an apartment, and roads looping the island. They’ve also erected horse stables, a chicken coop, a garage and even their own church.

All those new buildings, of course, have increased the property’s value. Cacoulidis says the town’s tax bill was about $7,000 when he bought the island. The bill this year was $39,215, and it will go up again next year.

Cacoulidis said he senses an attitude in the town of “Let’s tax him. He’s from New York. He has money.”

“They tax me for everything–I have no [public] transportation, no telephone, no electricity, no rubbish removal, no schools, no churches. I built all of that myself,” Cacoulidis said.

The Cacoulidises have run a power line to the island for electricity, and use cellular telephones. They hire somebody to remove trash, and built the island roads on their own.

The Cacoulidises set the secession process in motion in September when Phyllis Cacoulidis submitted a secession petition to town officials.

A public hearing was held in November and a special election of Hope Island’s registered voters will be held this winter. In this case, the only voter is Phyllis Cacoulidis, and she wasn’t registered until after she filed the secession petition.

[truthvsstate]

Living with a bunch of people you can get along with because of your beliefs, absolutely

Wouldn’t want to live WITH you all. But sure wouldn’t mind having you for neighbors. Zoning-shmoning. Are you all hell bent on “NH”? Life is short.
I’ve heard of a place where diversely skilled folks like Mechanics, Pot Farmers, Computer Engineers, Pig Farmers , Organic Gardeners etc can live undisturbed. They say you have to like winters though.
Samm

[truthvsstate]

There are also lots of tracts of land out there that exist in much more amiable Towns in NH away from the socialists of the southern half of NH. Unless you want a war, that is.

What is ones vision of “freedom” ? Is it the (rare) winning of a fight against the sheep while living amongst a large portion of the population actually being sheep ? Does this make you feel free ? Do you have to be inside of their system in order to fight it ?
Could more freedom be found in remote areas where there’s not enough population to care what you’re doing as long as you respect your neighbors ? (low population is key)
I believe you can escape the system almost completely and still fight against it while being in a world more suited to YOUR needs for freedom.
Samm

[starrychloe]

I think you all really need to watch this. There are 6 episodes.

Watch Wild Wild Country (2018) Full Movie on FMovies.to

[Jay]

They discussed it on FTL, thought I don’t know if it was when Mark was on.

I was actually going to bring it up in this thread, but then I realized without a crazy psychopath woman usurping power and calling the shots with bombings and biological terrorism that I couldn’t properly compare it.

[Jay]

Could more freedom be found in remote areas where there’s not enough population to care what you’re doing as long as you respect your neighbors ? (low population is key)

Depends how nosy your neighbors are. Some things are easier for other people not to notice when you live in a city.