Some fo you will know me as the Poster Formerly known as Thomas Simmons. My name has been changed to changed to Tuathal (Tully) Fitzsimmons. More importantly, my political and economic journey has taken me from a Reagan Republican to a Right-Libertarian to a Leftist-Libertarian Democrat…and probably more at home here on FK than in some other NH liberty circles …
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51793#msg51793 date=1302436377]Some fo you will know me as the Poster Formerly known as Thomas Simmons. My name has been changed to changed to Tuathal (Tully) Fitzsimmons. More importantly, my political and economic journey has taken me from a Reagan Republican to a Right-Libertarian to a Leftist-Libertarian Democrat…and probably more at home here on FK than in some other NH liberty circles …[/quote]
Your solution to every problem I've seen you discuss is more government, and you lash out in defense of the cops all the time.
Why do you think you would fit in, here?
And, by the way, liberty doesn't come in flavors.
Joe
Joe, I have been on this forum before…and actually get along with many. You and I disagree on a number of issues. Deal with it. That's the nature of indivdual freedom.
And for the record, I have never 'lashed out in defense of cops.' I actually have a very, very, negative and jaded view of police forces in general: of their tactics, their power, their lording it over a population that acquiesces and obeys.
What I have done is point out that there at least two indivdual police officers I know of who are privately quite supportive…so it doesnt make sense to apply childish or derogartory language against all of them. I believe our cause is best served by criticizing specific actions… not indivdual people.
I am not an anarchist. I believe in the use of the State in places such as antitrust, or prosecuting externalities. We may disagree.
That's OK. You're allowed to be thick-headed and wrong ;D
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51797#msg51797 date=1302442299]Joe, I have been on this forum before…and actually get along with many. You and I disagree on a number of issues. Deal with it. That's the nature of indivdual freedom.[/quote]
Only problem is that "agree to disagree" only works on personal opinions. Once one party is willing to initiate violence, it's no longer a simple disagreement.
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51797#msg51797 date=1302442299]And for the record, I have never 'lashed out in defense of cops.' I actually have a very, very, negative and jaded view of police forces in general: of their tactics, their power, their lording it over a population that acquiesces and obeys.
What I have done is point out that there at least two indivdual police officers I know of who are privately quite supportive…so it doesnt make sense to apply childish or derogartory language against all of them. I believe our cause is best served by criticizing specific actions… not indivdual people.[/quote]
Except that's not what you said. You've said that their behavior is moral. Not that they kind of are a bit supportive, but still do evil every day, but that they do not do evil when they initiate force against innocents.
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51797#msg51797 date=1302442299]I am not an anarchist. I believe in the use of the State in places such as antitrust, or prosecuting externalities. We may disagree.
That's OK. You're allowed to be thick-headed and wrong ;D[/quote]
No, you defend the State in pretty much every instance. Even trivial things, like speaking out in favor of the Registry of Deeds as a necessary exercise of their violent power. At every opportunity, you oppose the free market solution, and favor the violent monopoly.
Joe
That's OK, Joe. Having a nemesis like you simply makes me appear all the more rational. I like it.
You are definitely welcome, Tully. Nice seeing you in Price Chopper the other day.
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51801#msg51801 date=1302451744]That's OK, Joe. Having a nemesis like you simply makes me appear all the more rational. I like it.[/quote]
Keep telling yourself that.
The fact that you imagine I'm your "nemesis" just demonstrates how irrational you are. Nothing you say hasn't been said a million times before by various other Statists, so it takes me mere seconds to pull out the correct response to your specious claims (usually while I'm on hold, or waiting for a file to download, or otherwise bored). If you imagine that someone spending a few seconds per day countering your nonsense makes him your "nemesis," that really shows a lot about your life experience and worldview.
I think someone would need to spend at least an hour a day on me, to consider him my nemesis. And he'd have to really be working at it for that hour, coming up with novel ways to attack me, not just mentally cutting-and-pasting arguments used many times before.
Maybe you can tell us again how taxes aren't paid under threat of violence, which will obviously demonstrate your rationality…
Joe
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51797#msg51797 date=1302442299]
I believe in the use of the State in places such as antitrust, or prosecuting externalities.
[/quote]
How's that working out?
[quote author=FTL_Ian link=topic=5003.msg51803#msg51803 date=1302453914]
You are definitely welcome, Tully. Nice seeing you in Price Chopper the other day.
[/quote]
Ah! I thought that was you!!!
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51793#msg51793 date=1302436377]
…and probably more at home here on FK than in some other NH liberty circles …
[/quote]
You mean as a person who has "essentially soured on, and given up on, the FSP as a positive force in NH society"?
[quote author=KBCraig link=topic=5003.msg51823#msg51823 date=1302553143]
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51793#msg51793 date=1302436377]
…and probably more at home here on FK than in some other NH liberty circles …
[/quote]
You mean as a person who has "essentially soured on, and given up on, the FSP as a positive force in NH society"?
[/quote]
Yes. There's way too much toleration of Social Statism for me within both the FSP and NHLA in general…I somehow doubt FKers would tolerate that stuff.
It would be interesting to know how many of those who are affronted by my presence actually LIVE in the Keene area…
Joe used to be my "nemesis" too. Until I came to the realization that he was right and I was wrong. That isn't to say that he is always right, but to say the position he comes from is almost always right.
Welcome
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51793#msg51793 date=1302436377]
Some fo you will know me as the Poster Formerly known as Thomas Simmons. My name has been changed to changed to Tuathal (Tully) Fitzsimmons. More importantly, my political and economic journey has taken me from a Reagan Republican to a Right-Libertarian to a Leftist-Libertarian Democrat…and probably more at home here on FK than in some other NH liberty circles …[/quote]
Makes sense, since Andrew and Michael and I have been working pretty hard to build a working relationship with local Dems and lefties. And our libertarian Republican wing, unusually, is practically non-existent.
I'm looking forward to the day when we can proclaim Keene the liberaltarian/leftist-libertarian capital of the world, not just the libertarian civil disobedience capital.
(For all I know, we already are. There isn't much competition. :P)
the right wing 'libertarians' get on my nerves too.
Real liberty doesn't come in flavors.
"I'm a right-libertarian" or "I'm a left-libertarian" just translates as "I'm not really a libertarian at all - I just think it's cool to pretend, while I actually support oppression."
Real libertarians obey the NAP. They don't try to enforce theocracy or socialism on others. They don't support imperialism or restrictions on free trade. They don't support declaring people "illegal" based upon where they were born or the color of their skin, and they don't support declaring people privileged, based upon where they were born or the color of their skin.
Real libertarians support liberty in all things, whether it's convenient to their lives, or not.
Joe
[quote author=MaineShark link=topic=5003.msg51858#msg51858 date=1302652316]
Real liberty doesn't come in flavors.
"I'm a right-libertarian" or "I'm a left-libertarian" just translates as "I'm not really a libertarian at all - I just think it's cool to pretend, while I actually support oppression."
Real libertarians obey the NAP. They don't try to enforce theocracy or socialism on others. They don't support imperialism or restrictions on free trade. They don't support declaring people "illegal" based upon where they were born or the color of their skin, and they don't support declaring people privileged, based upon where they were born or the color of their skin.
Real libertarians support liberty in all things, whether it's convenient to their lives, or not.
Joe
[/quote]
It must be positively magical to live in a world where everything is so clear, so cut and dry, so right and wrong, so purely bipolar, with no need or room for nuance or discussion or understanding from a different point of view. When my children were about 5 years old, they approached life with such literal black-and-whiteism. It made everything so simple for them.
[quote author=Tully link=topic=5003.msg51859#msg51859 date=1302653663][quote author=MaineShark link=topic=5003.msg51858#msg51858 date=1302652316]Real liberty doesn't come in flavors.
"I'm a right-libertarian" or "I'm a left-libertarian" just translates as "I'm not really a libertarian at all - I just think it's cool to pretend, while I actually support oppression."
Real libertarians obey the NAP. They don't try to enforce theocracy or socialism on others. They don't support imperialism or restrictions on free trade. They don't support declaring people "illegal" based upon where they were born or the color of their skin, and they don't support declaring people privileged, based upon where they were born or the color of their skin.
Real libertarians support liberty in all things, whether it's convenient to their lives, or not.[/quote]It must be positively magical to live in a world where everything is so clear, so cut and dry, so right and wrong, so purely bipolar, with no need or room for nuance or discussion or understanding from a different point of view. When my children were about 5 years old, they approached life with such literal black-and-whiteism. It made everything so simple for them.[/quote]
Life can be quite simple, if you accept that others have the right to live their own lives how they choose, rather than trying to force your beliefs on them.
When the answer to most issues is, "if it harm none, do as ye will," there's really very little to pass judgment on.
As you noted, even a child can manage it. Unfortunately, most children are brainwashed by parents and schools into the idea that they "need" to tell others how to live their own lives, so they lose that ability, and end up bitter and angry, instead.
Liberty is, indeed, a wonderful way in which to live. I'd hesitate to call it magical, since I'm a rationalist, and do not believe in magic. Those who live in liberty do not have to worry about who they are supposed to be terrified of, this week. They don't have to worry about who they are supposed to feel inferior or superior to. They don't have to worry about who they are supposed to discriminate against. They don't have to worry about who they are supposed to steal from, and who they are supposed to pay off. They can just concentrate on living their lives, and being the best people that they are able to be. I quite enjoy living in liberty. Most everyone who's every tried it, stays permanently.
Joe
[quote author=MaineShark link=topic=5003.msg51858#msg51858 date=1302652316]
Real liberty doesn't come in flavors.
[/quote]
If "real" wasn't one of more-than-one flavors, then "real liberty" would be a redundancy.
[quote author=mackler link=topic=5003.msg51863#msg51863 date=1302656037][quote author=MaineShark link=topic=5003.msg51858#msg51858 date=1302652316]Real liberty doesn't come in flavors.[/quote]If "real" wasn't one of more-than-one flavors, then "real liberty" would be a redundancy.[/quote]
Nah. There's false liberty, and false liberty does come in flavors.
False liberty isn't a flavor of liberty; it's just a counterfeit.
Joe