cops cops cops cops cops cops cops
cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops
copscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscops
COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS
COPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPS
I LOVE MEN IN UNIFORM!!! WITHOUT YOU SOCIETY WOULD CRUMBLE!!!
I LOVE YOU SOOOOOO MUCH!!! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO
[quote author=IntegralS link=topic=4846.msg50940#msg50940 date=1299916380]
cops cops cops cops cops cops cops
cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops cops
copscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscopscops
COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS COPS
COPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPSCOPS
I LOVE MEN IN UNIFORM!!! WITHOUT YOU SOCIETY WOULD CRUMBLE!!!
I LOVE YOU SOOOOOO MUCH!!! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO
[/quote]
Now this is what I like to see.
<3
[quote author=Ishtar link=topic=4846.msg50936#msg50936 date=1299899472]
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50930#msg50930 date=1299898345]
Holy long winded Ishtar…
[/quote]
I know, I appoligize, it's a flaw of mine caused by the fact that I actually try to address the points and question people bring up to me… unlike certain cough other people on this topic…
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50930#msg50930 date=1299898345]
Would YOU like the free market to enforce the laws? Let me tell you exactly what would happen, and IS happening. Ever hear of red light camera or those speed cameras? THAT is the free market cashing in. Let me ask you, would rather take your chances with me giving you a ticket, or the automated machine spitting out a thousand tickets a day?
[/quote]
Funny you would ask me that, considering that the country I come from leaves most traffic tickets for speeding and red light are left to cameras.
Cops do not generally EVER give tickets for things like that, and instead focus on helping people that request their service.
You'll never find a cop lay in ambush along a road… EVER… for anything…
As for whether I prefer that or not…
8 years of driving history there, not a single ticket on my name.
A year and a half driving history here and I've got 3… 1 of them with the cop blatantly lying about what I supposedly did.
Yeah, I think I DEFINITELY prefer the cameras to take care of things like that.
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50930#msg50930 date=1299898345]
Second, say there IS a free market 'security force' and no cops (Blackwater anyone?) How exactly would this security force operate? Now remember, there is ZERO government infrastructure requiring the registration of vehicles, a fingerprint database, NCIC, SCIC, or anything available to them other than the information YOU can provide to find the bad guy. And let's say your car was broken into at 3am while you were asleep, and your wallet with all your credentials and money was taken. What resources will they have to solve the crime?
[/quote]
What resources do I have now when my wallet gets stole?
The two time it happened I filed a police report and never heard back from them ever since.
The one time my car got hit while parked within regulation, I again filed a report and nothing happened.
When several bikes of me and family members where stolen over the years, the cops again did nothing, even though these bikes where tagged -as mandated- and the accompanying 150 buck mandating tagging fee was payed…
So I got to pay to tag my bike because it would help me when it got stolen and instead ended up loosing a bike AND 150 bucks…
I could go on with my list of example on how the cops didn't help me in situations like your hypothetical…
In the end, what does it really matter?
Now you tell me…
Why on Earth should I have to proof to you that the system I'd like would be utopia before it even exists when you are doing no such thing?
I don't think a voluntary system will be flawless, but the flaws of the system can be addressed as they come along and if it ends up not working out in the end, we can try something else.
However, how is the fact that the next system MIGHT be flawed a justification for keeping the current system which we FACTUALLY KNOW is flawed around?
Before I proof to you that my way of doing things is utopia, why don't you start by explaining how YOUR system is utopia or can ever be made into it…
Further, how about answering my questions instead of accusing me of being long winded for trying to answer yours?
Do you or do you not retract your statement that claimed you would beat up people for annoying you if you could get away with it?
[/quote]
Just because a system is flawed does not mean it is not the best option. You want privatized security and privatized investigations. Look into exactly what a PRIVATIZED organization does. It is held to no higher standard, and does what it can to make a buck. With government, at least you have different levels of supervision and oversight, which stops a particular organization from becoming a gang. Look at Blackwater. They were a private 'security force' that quickly became a gang of thugs. They killed people wantonly and randomly destroyed things because there was NO oversight by some kind of authority. At least with us, if you don't like what the local PD did, you can go to the county prosecutor. If you had a problem with him, you can go to the state. Problem there, you can go to the highest level of the justice system- the supreme court. What recourse did the people have with Blackwater? ZERO.
If you want to privatize my job, then by all means do it. If I get a bonus every time I write a ticket or lock a guy up (like they would in the private sector) you would NOT leave your house. It would actually work in my favor- I'd be flush.
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50937#msg50937 date=1299900194]
OhCrapItsTheCops,
to elaborate on communism and the ruling oligarchy
I agree that the US corporation is headed up by a oligarchy, one that traces it's genetic roots right back to the royalty of Europe and indeed the same inbred bloodlines that claim a devine right to rule going back thousands of years
as for the definition of communism, the one you described was handed down to us by the very creators of communism, the ruling oligarchy
as the creators of this refashioned feudalism(communism/socialism), they had know intention of actually following the rules themselves(paying their share)
point being that I believe my description of communism is more realistic than the reason you gave for the US corporation not being communist
[/quote]
Oh no, I agree the US policy toward the citizens is not a republic of any sort, but I think the right definition is socialist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't communism is a political ideology with one class of people, while socialism is a moral ideology with multiple classes of people, but required to take care of the lower class? I dunno. They are almost one and the same in practice- take from the have nots and split it up between the ruling elite and the destitute. Either definition means that anyone who isn't the ruling class gets fucked, which is what we have.
I looked up the definition of italian fascism, and it's based on this roman model: The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide; he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, life, which should be high and full, lived for oneself, but not, above all, for others — those who are at hand, and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after.
It sounds almost like you are 'free' but your higher duty is to other citizens. It really DOES seem to fit the basic ideology of most Americans today. But is our higher duty right now toward ourselves, other citizens, or toward the state? The line begins to blur.
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50930#msg50930 date=1299898345]
Would YOU like the free market to enforce the laws? Let me tell you exactly what would happen, and IS happening. Ever hear of red light camera or those speed cameras? THAT is the free market cashing in.
[/quote]
BwaaaHHAAAHHAHAAA!
Tell another none, Crappy!
"Free market" red light and speed cameras? Seriously? Do you have no idea what "free market" means?
Let me guess: you also think KV Pharmaceuticals winning "sole source" approval from the FDA for synthetic progesterone, which outlaws all competitors, and subsequently raising the price from $10 to $2,000 per dose, is the "free market" at work?
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50944#msg50944 date=1299928810]
If you want to privatize my job, then by all means do it. If I get a bonus every time I write a ticket or lock a guy up (like they would in the private sector) you would NOT leave your house. It would actually work in my favor- I'd be flush.
[/quote]
Stop kidding yourself about being the great guy that you are.
You're the type of man who will beat up strangers for slightly annoying you, if only you could get away with it.
Your words… words you refuse to retract, even when given the chance multiple times.
I'm sure that people in the town where you "work" already need to fear to leave their houses when you're having a bad day.
I'm also sure that, considering the type of guy you have admitted to being here, there have been plenty of time you've been able to get away with abuse of your powers, and have happily and readily done so.
Considering we're at a point in the debate where you're so shut down on your own spin that you're not saying anything that's worth refuting anymore.
You've given up on the pretense that you where even listening a while ago, seeing that you've not even bothering to try and respond to points made, or question asked.
You're looking more and more like a rat in a wheel, running circles in the illusions of your own mind to try and justify the cognitive dissidence you feel every day.
Either way, my reason for even talking to you to begin with is gone, so I don't see any point to continue this with you.
Have fun constructing the illusions that will keep you a morally just person in your own mind.
Just thought I'd keep it civil… ;D
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50924#msg50924 date=1299895324]
Who do you call when someone gets hurt?
[/quote]
Anyone but police. I call police when I want someone to be hurt.
Cops cause injuries, they don't treat them.
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50931#msg50931 date=1299898581]
I forgot to add, WHO exactly will oversee this 'security force?'
As for changing tires- I've changed plenty in my career, against SOP. We are not 'allowed' to do it by the PD for liability reasons.
[/quote]
Wow. Really? Liability for changing a tire?
Good thing the law doesn't impose liability for shooting unarmed people in the back. Then you'd be violating SOP everytime you did that.
OhCrapItsTheCops,
you are going for textbook definitions of communism and socialism, don't forget who gives us these definitions and textbooks and while these textbook definitions may have some merit, for me I see it as just more razzmatazz to confuse the whole issue that someone is getting a big red, white and blue dildo shoved you know where
Mussolini said that fascism can be defined as corporatism, where big business gets together with government to screw the general population
the Act of 1871 created a federal corporation known as the UNITED STATES, so here big business and government are not two separate entities, but one and the same, this would represent the ultimate expression of fascism and boy do they screw the general population
a good example of fascism would be auto insurance, you have big business (insurance companies) in cahoots with government to make laws where you have to buy the insurance companies services
what a deal, I sure wish I could get the government to hold a gun to peoples head to coerce them into doing business with me, I got all kinds of crap I could peddle
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50955#msg50955 date=1299948683]a good example of fascism would be auto insurance, you have big business (insurance companies) in cahoots with government to make laws where you have to buy the insurance companies services[/quote]
Not in NH, by the way 
Joe
MaineShark,
I was aware of that but failed to mention it
thanks for bringing it up
I believe that the exemption would only apply to "motor vehicles" that are paid for
Finance companies will insist on insurance to protect their interests, which I think is actually fair
btw MaineShark,
no "motor vehicle" insurance is a major reason for my considering moving to NH
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50957#msg50957 date=1299957909]I believe that the exemption would only apply to "motor vehicles" that are paid for
Finance companies will insist on insurance to protect their interests, which I think is actually fair[/quote]
Well, they will insist on coverage of the vehicle, at least up to the lien amount. Liability insurance (protection for those who might be injured) is a separate issue, and is typically what is mandated in states that mandate insurance.
However, don't call it an "exemption." An exemption implies that something is otherwise prohibited/required, but an exception is allowed if you meet certain conditions. Liability insurance is not required in NH, but exempted if you paid for a vehicle in full - it's just not required.
The exception runs the other way. Habitual offenders of certain laws are required to have liability insurance, ostensibly because they have demonstrated themselves to be hazards on the road. The system is imperfect, but it at least attempts to go along with the idea of "innocent until proven guilty."
Joe
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50958#msg50958 date=1299958356]no "motor vehicle" insurance is a major reason for my considering moving to NH[/quote]
Personally, I wouldn't drive without it.
But the fact that I could, means that the insurance companies have to charge a fair price. They have to compete not only against each other, but against the option of not buying their product. If they raise the price too much, more drivers will decide to go without.
The same could be said for police. If there were two or three competing police forces, and we had the option of not hiring any of them, the cost of policing would go down, and the quality would go up. As with automobile insurance, I expect most banks would require that those with mortgages have insurance coverage that includes police, fire protection, and such. Because the cost would be low, most folks would pay for it, willingly, because it would be a good value.
Those who spend some of their money on making their house more resistant to fire, burglary, and the like, would get substantial discounts on their coverage. Insurance companies might offer discounts for purchasing firearms and training, because the statistics clearly show (and underwrites love their statistics) that guns reduce crime. Same might go for participating in a neighborhood watch, and the like - if some percentage of the population can be incentivized into reducing crime, the insurance companies have fewer claims to pay, so it's in their own best interest to make the investment.
With the current system, I have to pay a certain amount per year, and it doesn't matter if I'm a leech, John Q. Average, or the most proactive reducer of crime around… I pay the same amount. Actually, if I invest in fences and a burglar alarm and such, I've raised the value of my home, so I have to pay more in property taxes. Any honest peace officer would be appalled!
Joe
Elite police lower standards: http://abc.daytonsnewssource.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wkef_vid_6103.shtml
You know, the fact that they want to lower the score standards to 58% and 63% for the two tests is bad enough, but the fact that they've been operating for years with the standards set at 66% and 72% is appalling.
These are the "elite" individuals who are supposed to police the rest of us? In all the industries I've worked where there were training requirements, I can't recall a single one where the pass percentage was less than 80% on any test, and usually much higher. I think the 80% one was something about how to properly fill out paperwork. Nothing involving life safety was ever less than 90%, that I can recall.
But a cop can get well more than a quarter of the test wrong, and still pass? I doubt you can get a job ad McDonald's with that poor a score on their internal tests.
Joe
MaineShark,
thanks for the info regarding insurance in New Hampshire and for pointing out the miss use of the word exemption
as far as police test scores go, I believe that there is a method to the madness, what do you want to bet that they don't want police that are too smart
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50967#msg50967 date=1299978360]thanks for the info regarding insurance in New Hampshire…[/quote]
Another useful bit? NH has one of the lowest rates of uninsured motorists in America. It's almost like folks will actually choose to do "the right thing," even with no gun to their heads.
[quote author=cerberil link=topic=4846.msg50967#msg50967 date=1299978360]as far as police test scores go, I believe that there is a method to the madness, what do you want to bet that they don't want police that are too smart[/quote]
Can't have them questioning orders, can we?
Joe
The low test scores are to widen the candidate pool. If they have a residency requirement, and all they have are people with a HS diploma but an 8th grade reading level, they must pick form that pool of candidates. On the other side of the coin, math and reading skills don't dictate common sense, street smarts, or how well you can function doing the grunt work. Some of the best cops are the ones that were involved with the wrong side of the law in their 'former' lives.
[quote author=OhCrapItsTheCops link=topic=4846.msg50970#msg50970 date=1299980101]
… Some of the best cops are the ones that were involved with the wrong side of the law in their 'former' lives.
[/quote]
Requeue Clockwork Orange quote from my earlier post.