Hi, everybody! I'm Barrett from Stallings, North Carolina and this is my first post here.
I have great relationships with my family, and they're more or less on-board with a liberty mindset, but we do get into disagreements sometimes. For example, my dad and I got into a pretty heated kerfuffle two months ago over the Free State Project. I can't wait to move to New Hampshire, get a fresh start with a new life and a new locale, and get involved with the liberty activism up there. My dad, on the other hand, has a ton of preconceived notions about New Hampshire and its residents. "It's cold all the time.", "It's probably full of loud, cranky Northerners.", "There's probably nothing much going on there anyway, and they're building it up to be more than it is.", etc. etc. etc., and he's never even been there or researched it in any way! What's more, he thinks that anywhere you go up north must be loud, busy, and urban, when the fact is that New Hampshire has an astoundingly versatile topography and geography, from bustling metropolitan cities and sleepy, idyllic towns to rural farmland and rocky beaches. Anyway, I digress…
It turned into this huge, heated discussion with both of us getting short-tempered and impatient with eachother, despite the fact that we are inseparably close almost all the time, so close in fact that he was probably right to take for granted the belief that I could never leave behind my family to move to a strange place thousands of miles away. I don't like fighting with my loved ones, so I changed the subject, but I'm still licking my wounds over it, and fighting the urge to give up on the whole idea of ever pursuing my goal of a new life in the Free State. How can one fight such irrational myths when they're not based in any semblance of fact? I think that what's even worse than just being disagreed with, which doesn't normally bother me, is being disagreed with when all of the facts and research is on your side, and the person you're arguing with is just operating on assumptions, stereotypes, circular logic, and fear of the unknown. In fact, I think these gripes of mine are a perfect microcosm of the larger concept of libertarian apologetics. Doesn't it always seem as though debating the merits or demerits of liberty with most people is like arguing with a brick wall?
Well, unless you're under "legal" age, you can do as you please, and your dad can take it however he chooses. For myself, I've been e-mailing friends this week telling them that my one big regret about moving is that I didn't do it years before.
You should come up and visit if you can. That way, you can disprove your dad's statements through first-hand experience.
I just moved to Keene, and I can tell you that the movement here isn't overhyped. It will be difficult to change things, sure, but the activists here are very determined and our numbers are rapidly growing.
Bring him up for the next Porcfest - if that doesn't convince him, you have a decision to make - Should you follow your desires for you or should you follow his desires for you?
Welcome to Free Keene!
My parents sometimes think I hate Jesus because of this 
Anyway, from my experience, don't bother trying to convince the family. Hard times are coming if the economy collapses, and they will blame you for all of their troubles because you said it would be great to move, and they semi-listened.
In my case, I suggested NH first, then pensacola… but I never suggested that my dad take the life savings, buy a house at way more than it was worth and not get a job for a year :). I just got blamed for the rest :D.
So… if I could do it over again, I would move without them. Perhaps if you belong somewhere, your family does not necessarily have to join.
[quote author=antijingoist link=topic=600.msg5744#msg5744 date=1238695807]
My parents sometimes think I hate Jesus because of this
Anyway, from my experience, don't bother trying to convince the family. Hard times are coming if the economy collapses, and they will blame you for all of their troubles because you said it would be great to move, and they semi-listened.
In my case, I suggested NH first, then pensacola… but I never suggested that my dad take the life savings, buy a house at way more than it was worth and not get a job for a year :). I just got blamed for the rest :D.
So… if I could do it over again, I would move without them. Perhaps if you belong somewhere, your family does not necessarily have to join.
[/quote]
I'd say your analysis is correct. Families are just strangers you are born into. Some turn out great, others not so much. You should follow your heart, and so should they. My new family is here.
Before my wife "got" liberty, I had to sell her on NH. I made a website for just that purpose.
http://www.whynewhampshire.org/
[quote author=Kevin Dean link=topic=600.msg5753#msg5753 date=1238697877]
Before my wife "got" liberty, I had to sell her on NH. I made a website for just that purpose.
http://www.whynewhampshire.org/
[/quote]
Thats pretty sweet. Did you pretend to "just randomly find it" or did she know you did it?
I am having the same problem right now. I live in New Jersey and although I finally got my wife to agree to move, it's not going to be for at least 2 years, and she keeps trying to come up with reasons to move somewhere else. One thing not to do if in this situation is to keep pushing the topic of when to move there, b/c then people get mad and say they'll never go with you. I have found that so far the best thing to do for me is to just drop little hints or phrases about NH now and then and she has started doing it to, like for instance, now when she makes a crockpot meal that comes out bad, she'll be like " I better get this right before were in New Hampshire." It sucks cause I just want to get out of here, but going slow is the most user friendly.
[quote]Thats pretty sweet. Did you pretend to "just randomly find it" or did she know you did it?[/quote]
Actually, I don't think she's ever visited the site, honestly.
I happened to get "lucky". One day I explained Voluntaryism to her, and in that explained the NAP and the idea of self-ownership.
Self-ownership created a storm in her head, and really grasping what it meant to own herself brought her into the liberty fold. 
The information on the site is pretty good though and has been discussed between us.
What Ian said. Ask him to come to PorcFest.
Keep nagging at him till he agrees to go – then keep out of his hair and don't bug him during PF itself. Let him meet people and form his own opinions.
We'll do the rest
[quote author=d_goddard link=topic=600.msg6099#msg6099 date=1239161041]
What Ian said. Ask him to come to PorcFest.
Keep nagging at him till he agrees to go – then keep out of his hair and don't bug him during PF itself. Let him meet people and form his own opinions.
We'll do the rest
[/quote]
I'll second, or third that suggestion. I am also fairly close to my father. But it is important to meet people already doing something that you are considering. It is like a test drive. :)
UPDATE:
I've almost fully convinced my dad to go with me to PorcFest!!!
We're regional truckers by profession and have been as far from home as New York City and southeastern Indiana, so the route I've been taking in convincing him is that we take long road trips and stopovers in faraway places all the time. The only difference here is that it'll be for leisure instead of business.
Perhaps even more amazingly, my mom signed the Statement of Intent about a week ago, and announced to me that, come Hell or high water, she will move to New Hampshire once my little sister finishes High School two years from now. It looks like "the folks" might be coming around afterall!
If I can make it (and this looks like an ever-increasing likelihood), I look forward to meeting you all at PorcFest, and shaking so many libertarian hands that my arm falls right off!
Wow. That's awesome! Congrats.
Did your mom list you as the person who introduced you to the FSP? Your mom, dad and sister would make three, and you're be a Golden Porcupine.
I can identify with this. My family is from rural South Carolina and most people in that area have a perverted view of what it is like in Yankee-land. I know I had very low expectations of what New York would be like before I moved there. I remember my dad beginning some advice by saying, "When you get robbed, …" The assumption being I would at some point get robbed, no matter what. That's sorta typical for how some Southerners view the northeast.
I will say that the people in Keene are very friendly. And I don't just mean the liberty activists, but the statists too. My girlfriend (from Massachusetts) is still trying to adjust to random people saying "Hello" on the street or in grocery stores. It's the kind of place where you can leave your doors unlocked and not have to worry. Lots of outdoors stuff to do too and the most hiked mountain in the US is close by.
I'd be happy to talk to your dad about NH if you think that'd help.
[quote author=PaulOtt link=topic=600.msg9896#msg9896 date=1244147609]
I can identify with this. My family is from rural South Carolina and most people in that area have a perverted view of what it is like in Yankee-land. I know I had very low expectations of what New York would be like before I moved there. I remember my dad beginning some advice by saying, "When you get robbed, …" The assumption being I would at some point get robbed, no matter what. That's sorta typical for how some Southerners view the northeast.
[/quote]
Hahaha… I lived in NY for 18 years… I'd have to agree with your dad to a point, though it does depend on where you live and where you hang out. If you are not stupid, you'd be OK… from experience, if you appear to not be paying attention, or just slightly bubbly you may increase your chances of getting hurt. However, if you are pretty alert, most people won't waste their time trying to unseccessfully harm you.
Also, while most in NYC seem rather rude, from what I've seen, if someone is in trouble, everyone is suddenly friendly, chipping in to help, etc…
[quote author=PaulOtt link=topic=600.msg9896#msg9896 date=1244147609]
I will say that the people in Keene are very friendly. And I don't just mean the liberty activists, but the statists too. My girlfriend (from Massachusetts) is still trying to adjust to random people saying "Hello" on the street or in grocery stores. It's the kind of place where you can leave your doors unlocked and not have to worry. Lots of outdoors stuff to do too and the most hiked mountain in the US is close by.
I'd be happy to talk to your dad about NH if you think that'd help.
[/quote]
Oh my! I second this… I was floored with how friendly everyone is up here. When I lived down south, people seemed to be friendly only to be able to profit somehow from their friendliness… Everyone up here seems to be helpful to others just to be helpful… I'm still shocked.
Well done, Bantam. My inner family is in the same boat, I got my bro and fee coming for P-fest (both RNs)+ a friend and fee + my cousin who will be coming for a whole week @ P-fest. Plus, some other moving friends that'll be comin later in the end of summer as well as 2 that will be coming in the winter. Also, my folks and g-parents are coming out in the fall to check out property on Lake WINN. The FSP should be on fire this summer!