I AM A(n)
Traveler, Thinker, Agriculturist, Environmentalist, Student, Teacher, Social Reformer, Orator, Athlete, Libertarian and Proletariat amongst many other things. I will also remain an anonymous member until safety is assured.
I am here to make connections with like minded individuals. Progress starts with action. Inaction leads lambs to slaughter.
I found the Shire through due diligence.
I believe the ideas of the Police State and Corporatocracy have evolved from fears to reality. This is built on my experiences overseas, historical record and common sense.
Let us now communicate! 
Welcome - do you plan to come to the Shire?
To me the shire is a mental state. There by I can not "go" to it. In reference to Keene, I live near enough to make infrequent visits and have spent time there in college.
I have been familiar with southwest New Hampshire for a number of years but I originate from another place.
My question is one of your perspective. Is this group more focused on the positive community awareness such as the bearcat danger or negative such as enticing cops with topless joint smoking? On the topic of topless joint smoking and first amendment rights we must be certain that we also protect the civil liberties of those mothers with children that do not have to be subject to such viewing.
To be clear, cannabis is my friend and the drug war is a sham. There are no opium fields in Harlem, yet heroin flourishes. No gangster flies from the hood to Afghanistan and back undetected with enough opium for NYC's consumption let alone the nations. Marinate.
These are statements not accusations. This issue of corporatocracy is beyond cops. Cops are but the first line of threat to those outside the consumption taker society. They enforce the corporate agenda. Consumption is our root problem as the "system" merely exists to manage it. Hard to be anti war while drinking dunkin donuts. Petrol is the most "magical" of the resources that annihilate forms of life and reason for the enjoyment of others. Most forms of our relaxation depend on the bloody bones of another's labor.
In short, what is the consciousness you wish to portray and do others see your actions as that message?
I believe the shire society and free keene movement can accomplish some of the most important tasks our world faces. Do you?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg57989#msg57989 date=1329429535]
On the topic of topless joint smoking and first amendment rights we must be certain that we also protect the civil liberties of those mothers with children that do not have to be subject to such viewing.
[/quote]
It's not a civil liberty to be protected from seeing another person in public. That's demanding to control another person who isn't harming anyone. It's the opposite of freedom. If I think you're ugly, is it my right to make you put a bag over your head?
The smoking isn't a big deal since it's outdoors and pot smoke isn't even as disturbing as tobacco smoke. And being topless is about gender equality. I'm fine with basic standards of dress for the appropriate situations. On a sunny day when guys are walking around with their shirts off and no one is looking twice, a woman shouldn't be held to a different standard of behavior.
Seeing other people in public is an irrelevant point. Pot smoke is no worse than idling cars at the light. Women should never be held to a different standard of behavior. I merely say the lines are blurred when taking into account another persons right to not be exposed to nudity whether male or female. Being topless is not a fight to focus on when so much is at stake at this time. You have a home for privacy. For the record, I have no problem with a topless female. 
Any ideas on Keynesian Economics or ravaging consumerism? Is agriculture prevalent in discussion? What is the solution moving forward? This of course can not be some simple objective. This evolution of consciousness is multi-faceted.
What follows is the story of canned corn in a store.
THE CAN
Aluminum is mined using mountain top removal. This removal is completed by explosives and vehicles as large as a house. These earth movers consume 2.7 gallons of diesel fuel per hour without a full load. This aluminum is then shipped to a manufacturing plant on a trailer consuming 4.9 miles per gallon of fuel to be molded into a can. This trailer travels 700 miles burning nearly 145 gallons of gas, which of course bellows into our oxygen.
The process in which creates the can uses fuel and electricity mixed with hazardous, cancerous chemicals. These chemicals are procured either through bad science or extinctive environmental activities at great cost to the life of the planet or both. The cost of extraction for such chemicals shall not be named here but the reader can assure themselves it is toxic.
These cans are now shipped again at 4.9 mpgs for 400 miles to the corn processing plant totaling another eighty gallons of gas, which of course bellows into our oxygen. The cans are not yet complete on their journey.
THE FIELD
Clear cutting is used to make way for a new corn field. This process includes various equipment being used that burn 1,000’s of gallons of fuel, which of course bellows into our oxygen. The beings that lived there treated without an ounce of regard.
Fertilizers are then needed to create a perfect growing area. Fertilizers include hundreds of compounds. This story will focus on two. Phosphorus is procured in a multitude of ways totaling another hundred gallons of burning fuel, which of course bellows into our oxygen. This chemical is so important that an expected “peak” would be more devastating than peak petrol itself. Ammonia is dependent on gases that are procured through a process of hydraulic fracturing. This fracturing releases thousands of toxic chemicals into our water supply. This method ironically uses lake size reserves of water to create pressure on rocks to break the gases free.
These fertilizers are then spread by massive tractors burning thousands of gallons of fuel, which of course bellows into our oxygen. These tractors repeat this fuel cost many times over the course of the season including seeding, harvesting and resetting the field after harvest. This fuel will of course bellow into our oxygen as well. The cob becomes with harvestation.
THE COB
The harvested corn is then loaded and shipped to the cannery on another trailer burning 5 gallons of fuel, which of course bellows into our oxygen. The cannery utilizes a large amount of electricity which is procured from a local power plant bellowing millions of toxins into our oxygen. This power plant has procured its fuel either from coal, nuclear or natural gas.
Once the corn has been canned it is then shipped 1,500 miles to your local grocer. This adds another 310 gallons of burning fuel, which of course bellows into our oxygen. You drive your car burning more fuel to pick this can up for dinner.
ALTERNATIVE
Put some seeds in your backyard, unused lots or other non utilized areas. Water. Harvest.
This story covers only corn. Want another perspective? Imagine only the coca-colas at the local gas station. How many? 100? Now add the next gas stations inventory. Now include a grocery chain store? 10,000? Now include the town. County then state next. Region and country to follow. Thats only coca-cola, unfortunately there are thousands of varieties available.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]Seeing other people in public is an irrelevant point. Pot smoke is no worse than idling cars at the light. Women should never be held to a different standard of behavior.[/quote]
But you just said they should…
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]I merely say the lines are blurred when taking into account another persons right to not be exposed to nudity whether male or female.[/quote]
A) Toplessness is not nudity. Exposure of the genitalia is nudity.
B) There is no such right.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]Being topless is not a fight to focus on when so much is at stake at this time. You have a home for privacy. For the record, I have no problem with a topless female. ;)[/quote]
Yeah. Those gay folks can make sure not to hold hands in public. Same goes for inter-racial couples. They have homes for privacy. Homophobes and racists have as much "right" not to see things that offend them, as anyone else.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]What follows is the story of canned corn in a store.[/quote]
Interesting story. I'm curious how many cans are carried in each of those trailers being towed by a 4.9-mpg truck. A hundred thousand? More? So, how many milliliters of fuel go into each can's journey? Your story is not very compelling, when the math is done out.
As far as your solution, well, you can't just dump seeds in your back yard and expect to get a useful crop. Speaking as a farmer, I'm all for local farming, but anyone who imagines that you can just toss around a few seeds and feed yourself, obviously has no knowledge of farming. If we were to grow all our food, and fuel crops as well, we'd need multiple acres per person. Even using high-efficiency equipment, I doubt you can support an individual on less than ten acres in NH, and twenty would be more realistic. And, of course, that would come at a very high cost - on the order of 40 ounces per individual, assuming multi-member households, to get the initial equipment, plus yearly maintenance. You could spend less, but then the per-capita acreage requirement is going to shoot towards 100, quickly.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg57989#msg57989 date=1329429535]
On the topic of topless joint smoking and first amendment rights we must be certain that we also protect the civil liberties of those mothers with children that do not have to be subject to such viewing.[/quote]
I laugh.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg57989#msg57989 date=1329429535]
Hard to be anti war while drinking dunkin donuts.
[/quote]
How do you come to this interesting conclusion?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]
Women should never be held to a different standard of behavior. I merely say the lines are blurred when taking into account another persons right to not be exposed to nudity whether male or female. [/quote]
No, "the lines" are NOT "blurred." That is what people say when they want to pretend to be freedom lovers, but still control society with their goofball "morals."
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]
THE CAN
Aluminum is mined using mountain top removal. This removal is completed by explosives and vehicles as large as a house. [/quote]
Corn is canned in steel, not aluminum. Anyone who had ever opened a can or even glanced at some in stores should know this.
The trucks used in open-pit mining are considerably larger than a house. I guess you have never actually seen one.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]
This trailer travels 700 miles burning nearly 145 gallons of gas, which of course bellows into our oxygen.
These cans are now shipped again at … which of course bellows into our oxygen. [/quote]
The word you are grasping for here might be "billows." "Bellows" simply makes no sense.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]
THE FIELD
Clear cutting is used to make way for a new corn field. [/quote]
While clear-cutting may be used to clear new corn fields in distant lands, corn in major growing countries such as the US is grown in fields that have been in constant use for decades, if not centuries. The corn sold in NH comes from these long-established fields.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg58053#msg58053 date=1329852660]
ALTERNATIVE
Put some seeds in your backyard, unused lots or other non utilized areas. Water. Harvest. [/quote]
There's a lot more to it than that. You must have compatible soil, light, and water conditions, you have to fertilize, and control pests and pilferage. Backyard farming is quite labor intensive.
OK, you have demonstrated that you know nothing about trucks, metals, mining, farming, corn, and canned vegetables, generally. Was there a point to this diatribe?
I wanted to wait on a response. I was curious if anyone would see the story for what it is. There were some errors sure, but as I'll outline below even the errors contained empirical truths. However, the matter is missed in terms of self reflection. I'll attempt to explain again. Do not waste energy responding to nudity discussions or spelling and grammar errors as they have very insignificant importance to my discussion and will not be responded to. I wish to close the book on nudity whether or not you agree. I do not say this as rudeness, as I will respect any replies to the topic, I am just simply not interested in responding when so much more is at stake.
In chronological order of replies brought to this post.
MaineShark
1. I was clear in stating women should NOT be held to a different standard. I understand your point of breasts and genitalia are different.
Imagine for a moment that the disastrous and fraudulent money laundering "War for Drugs" was ended and heroin was legal.
For the record I do not use such substances. In my travels I have seen opium be moved from the Gujarati region to Mumbai to be cut again. The next step is to be transported to Kolkata then Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Tokyo then Los Angeles with all stops including serious cuts. I need not explain greedy Norte Americanos plans with this as it makes the journey to the east coast. This should explain my distaste for such things.
Entonces, in my humble opinion, despite it's legality, heroin should not be allowed to be consumed in public places such as the walk path to preschools. It is irresponsible and infringes on the rights of the parents to a safe and clean access to school for their children.
You differentiated genitalia and breast in your reply. Under your theory why are breast allowed but not full genitalia? If all should be exposed as your arguing then we should be allowed full nudity, a sex offenders dream. However, I would assume your differing of genitalia and breasts is due to it's over the top nature. If I am incorrect about this assumption please inform me. The point I am trying to make is that some folks may see breasts as over the top. This is a reasonable request. I pop wood when a nice set of breasts are in my line of vision and I am NOT a sex offender. I hope I have made this clear to understand.
If there is any feeling of discrimination then maybe males should be restricted from shirtless behavior as well. I think that would be a frivolous path, with more useless laws and fines and this time is better spent at least some what on some of the topics I list below.
This discussion of toplessness was started and somehow switched to gay/racial rights. However, Nudity can be viewed as inappropriate in some circumstances. Being homosexual or an individual of another race other than caucasian is not some choice or privacy matter. No one has the "right" to discriminate based on any issue of gender, orientation, religion or other unnecessary nonsense. A homosexual couple holding hands in public is their right to be human beings. If a religion finds it offensive behavior then that religion has the right to oppose it within the confines of their house of worship but not on the streets. It should be stressed that said homosexual couple has no right to enter into the house of worship of an opposed religion to protest. Rights go two ways. Hopefully the very large segment of "goof ball" moralists that exist in Norte Americana can begin understand this concept.
2. The math is extremely compelling. Individual cans purchased by you may not have a significant mathematical output in your mind. Now, take the time to calculate every single thing you've consumed from coffee filters, cups, lids, sugar packets to start the morning, or running electricity to brew your own still using coffee filters made with dangerous chemicals. Coffee beans picked by people in near slave condition, full slave if factoring monetary system into equation, roasted beans with pollutant smoke. That's just coffee, you haven't factored in the petrol fluids the car you drive, the beer you drank, the petrol take out containers disposed of, petrol dish/laundry soap used . The paper for your towels, plates, napkins, toilet, news and writing. Shoes, clothes, petrol makeup and other material vanity. Hazardous chloroflourocarbon refrigeration, fracking gas stoves, petrol heat, and petrol lighters. Untold amounts of petrol toys, petrol dvds, petrol phones and other petrol/hazardous electronics produced in unsafe chemical environments using child slave labor. Do I need to say more of mathematics? You may respond that you do not use those things. While this may be true it is irrelevant if all your neighbors are doing it. For everyone making a personal change, there are simply legions of others doing the opposite. We all will share the same fate however. That is my point of refocusing issues from toplessness to social responsibility.
The states are a cesspool of over indulgence and they are largely ignorant of it. Their narcissism does not equate any social costs of their selfish entertainment. The states were and can be simpler people. When I see an advert explaining how phones have made our lives simpler, all I can think of is the group of small Indian children with cancer by age 16 and ask what does that version of simpler mean?
3. I farm as well. Public empty spaces can be converted to arable land rather than garbage collection sites. This has been utilized throughout historical record of civilization. It will takes some sacrifices yes, but it's about time the states got motivated instead of sedated.
Auspicious Aspect #1
I come to the conclusion of the oxymoron antiwar/proconsumer in regards to dunkin donuts quite easily. The plastic cup, lid, straw and transport fuel are obtained using predator drones dropping bombs on children to secure supplies of petrol. Coffee growing conditions are horrendous. If we were to treat these people fairly, our dunkin donuts cups would cost $11 if such costs were represented honestly.
Auspicious Aspect #2
1. I have nothing to do with "goofball" morals. For another perspective however, imagine someone views you as "goofball" hedonism. Who is worthy of judging right or wrong when it comes to viewpoints? That is a blurred line.
2. Steel is correct, not aluminum. However I find it interesting you pointed this out as the environmental costs of steel are quite a bit more devastating than aluminum. Coal and Iron! Make aluminum seem like easy street. The trucks are bigger than houses, thereby making their environmental impact harsher as well. I appreciate your making my point easier. Perhaps your focus is better directed at the substance of something rather than trying to get "haha you wrong" moments across. This goes for 3. billows/bellows as well. If you could't figure out my context, we probably shouldn't be having such discussions any longer.
4. & 5. Clear cutting has not ceased and very little NH grown corn exists outside of farmers markets. The majority of folks buy their food from foreign origins. Lets not get into those shipping taxes on our health. Once again the impact of the "others" consumption is the danger to our planet and lives. Farming is easier than you think. Stop making it sound difficult. The real issue is the destruction of our property rights by being slaves to the wage system thereby limiting our time to put into the activity of farming. Not farming itself.
Tentative Conclusion
This corn post was no diatribe, nor it's reply. The government is about to equally crackdown on the Tea Party and OWS using drones and lethal force. Petroleum prices are going to rocket. The Europeans pay equivalent to $9 gallons and the chinese spend nearly $11 a gallon while waiting 30-45 minutes. They are tired of the states having special privilege. Ask your elders about the violence that broke out in the states in the 70's over the gas price spike. People are crazier now! The point of the transportation factor is with highly expensive gas comes absurdly priced consumer goods due to logistical infrastructure failures. Things are going to get very bad and soon.
Populations are exploding in the rest of the world. The states make up 12% of the worlds pop but consume nearly 46% of produced resources! The world has been enslaved, brutally conquered and stripped of their humanity in the states jingoistic pursuit of capital profit. Those people are uniting against the states. Take a look at America Sur with the exception of Colombia and see the hatred. The chickens are coming home to roost. They have sickened of Norte Americanos drinking beer, travelling to shows and watching filth dvds and propaganda boxes while those manufacturing such things struggle to survive. Wake the states from it's slumber and use self reflection instead of anger. It is not the fault of the other people in the world. The older generation of the states created this mess. However, the present and future generations will have to deal with it's fallout. Self-sufficiency my friends.
Of course self-sufficiency becomes irrelevant as well if the weather continues to mutate. Another by product of rampant swinish consumption. Weird weather is not uncommon, however when weird weather occurs in one region, it is statistically dominat to be normal in other regions. The winter in new england set records in warmth, low precipitation, and smallest number of days of snow cover. Meanwhile the southern states set records for low temps and snowfall and ice. Southern Siberia thawed out for the first time in recorded history only to be followed by the lowest temperatures ever. India is in drought while SE Asia floods in record levels. Have we already gone to far with our overshoot of convenience?
This is the really important stuff.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]Do not waste energy responding to nudity discussions or spelling and grammar errors as they have very insignificant importance to my discussion and will not be responded to. I wish to close the book on nudity whether or not you agree. I do not say this as rudeness, as I will respect any replies to the topic, I am just simply not interested in responding when so much more is at stake.[/quote]
Translation: you don't like it when your hypocrisy is shown for what it is…
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]1. I was clear in stating women should NOT be held to a different standard. I understand your point of breasts and genitalia are different.[/quote]
You say one thing, one place, and then say the opposite, elsewhere.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]Entonces, in my humble opinion, despite it's legality, heroin should not be allowed to be consumed in public places such as the walk path to preschools. It is irresponsible and infringes on the rights of the parents to a safe and clean access to school for their children.[/quote]
No one has a right not to see things that offend them.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]You differentiated genitalia and breast in your reply. Under your theory why are breast allowed but not full genitalia?[/quote]
I did not say that one should be allowed, but not the other. I stated that exposed breasts (or, more to the point, nipples, since that's what seems to offend folks like you) are not nudity, whether they are male or female. Exposing genitalia is nudity; whether or not nudity is acceptable is a separate discussion.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]If all should be exposed as your arguing then we should be allowed full nudity, a sex offenders dream.[/quote]
I take if you've never actually been any place where public nudity is commonly practiced? It's less sexual than tight clothes. Societies where nudity is not stigmatized have far lower levels of sex offenses than repressed societies.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]However, I would assume your differing of genitalia and breasts is due to it's over the top nature. If I am incorrect about this assumption please inform me. The point I am trying to make is that some folks may see breasts as over the top. This is a reasonable request. I pop wood when a nice set of breasts are in my line of vision and I am NOT a sex offender. I hope I have made this clear to understand.[/quote]
I find it amusing that you say you won't respond to this topic, but insert phrases like, "please inform me." In any case, no, that is not a reasonable request. And if it's not a reasonable request, then it certainly isn't reasonable to demand it, as you do.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]This discussion of toplessness was started and somehow switched to gay/racial rights. However, Nudity can be viewed as inappropriate in some circumstances. Being homosexual or an individual of another race other than caucasian is not some choice or privacy matter. No one has the "right" to discriminate based on any issue of gender, orientation, religion or other unnecessary nonsense. A homosexual couple holding hands in public is their right to be human beings. If a religion finds it offensive behavior then that religion has the right to oppose it within the confines of their house of worship but not on the streets. It should be stressed that said homosexual couple has no right to enter into the house of worship of an opposed religion to protest. Rights go two ways. Hopefully the very large segment of "goof ball" moralists that exist in Norte Americana can begin understand this concept.[/quote]
In other words, you're just a hypocrite. If it's a right you don't care about, then it "can be viewed as inappropriate in some circumstances" and exercising it in public is just a "choice." If it's a right that you care about, then it's a horrible crime against humanity if it is not respected. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. "Women must cover their chests in public" is every bit as unacceptable as "women must cover their faces in public" or "women must walk ten paces behind their husbands in public." Bigotry is bigotry. And, while some folks are born straight, or gay, or black, or white, or whatever, everyone is born nude. So, clearly, if "being born that way" is the defining factor, then there should be nothing more acceptable than nudity. Right? No one who respects human rights will try and enforce ridiculous and nonsensical rules upon others.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]2. The math is extremely compelling. Individual cans purchased by you may not have a significant mathematical output in your mind. Now, take the time to calculate every single thing you've consumed from coffee filters, cups, lids, sugar packets to start the morning, or running electricity to brew your own still using coffee filters made with dangerous chemicals. Coffee beans picked by people in near slave condition, full slave if factoring monetary system into equation, roasted beans with pollutant smoke. That's just coffee, you haven't factored in the petrol fluids the car you drive, the beer you drank, the petrol take out containers disposed of, petrol dish/laundry soap used .[/quote]
I find it amusing that you've listed a whole slew of things that I don't actually use. I don't drink coffee. The sugar I use for my tea does not come in packets, because wasteful packaging is offensive to me - I have a reusable container that I refill at the store. I have a wood stove, so heating a kettle does not mandate the use of electricity. And, of course, reusable tea balls eliminate the need for tea bags. I don't drink beer. I brew my own mead using locally-sourced honey. I don't use a drop of gasoline, and can get biodiesel for my truck from a producer right here in town. I don't think I've ever used petroleum-based soap; that's a fairly disgusting idea.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]The paper for your towels, plates, napkins, toilet, news and writing. Shoes, clothes, petrol makeup and other material vanity. Hazardous chloroflourocarbon refrigeration, fracking gas stoves, petrol heat, and petrol lighters. Untold amounts of petrol toys, petrol dvds, petrol phones and other petrol/hazardous electronics produced in unsafe chemical environments using child slave labor. Do I need to say more of mathematics? You may respond that you do not use those things. While this may be true it is irrelevant if all your neighbors are doing it. For everyone making a personal change, there are simply legions of others doing the opposite. We all will share the same fate however. That is my point of refocusing issues from toplessness to social responsibility.[/quote]
"Do not initiate force/fraud against any person." That's a socially-responsible position. Telling others what food to eat, what clothes to wear, what fuel to use, what they can and cannot express in public… that is social irresponsibility.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]The states are a cesspool of over indulgence and they are largely ignorant of it. Their narcissism does not equate any social costs of their selfish entertainment. The states were and can be simpler people.[/quote]
Interesting. Since I see Europe as a cesspool of totalitarianism. Putting a velvet glove over a fascist dictatorship doesn't make it any nicer, unless one is so shallow that one never looks beyond the glove.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]When I see an advert explaining how phones have made our lives simpler, all I can think of is the group of small Indian children with cancer by age 16 and ask what does that version of simpler mean?[/quote]
It means that the government should get out of the way of progress, so that cleaner, less-polluting technology can be developed, and effective treatments for cancer can be found. Governments are, by far, the worst polluters, and actively work to prevent new technology from being developed which might improve efficiency and reduce pollution.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]The Europeans pay equivalent to $9 gallons and the chinese spend nearly $11 a gallon while waiting 30-45 minutes. They are tired of the states having special privilege.[/quote]
Those prices are high due to taxes. Eliminate the taxes, and they go right back down. If some guy beats you to a bloody pulp once a week, and does not do the same to me, that doesn't mean that I have a special privilege; that means he is an evil jerk.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]Populations are exploding in the rest of the world. The states make up 12% of the worlds pop but consume nearly 46% of produced resources! The world has been enslaved, brutally conquered and stripped of their humanity in the states jingoistic pursuit of capital profit. Those people are uniting against the states. Take a look at America Sur with the exception of Colombia and see the hatred. The chickens are coming home to roost. They have sickened of Norte Americanos drinking beer, travelling to shows and watching filth dvds and propaganda boxes while those manufacturing such things struggle to survive. Wake the states from it's slumber and use self reflection instead of anger. It is not the fault of the other people in the world. The older generation of the states created this mess. However, the present and future generations will have to deal with it's fallout. Self-sufficiency my friends.[/quote]
So, your suggestion is that Americans should stop buying the things that are manufactured in the third world, where the workers struggle to survive? You do realize that automatically requires those who were formerly struggling to, instead, starve to death, right? Starving to death is preferable to struggling, but surviving?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59007#msg59007 date=1332267695]Of course self-sufficiency becomes irrelevant as well if the weather continues to mutate. Another by product of rampant swinish consumption. Weird weather is not uncommon, however when weird weather occurs in one region, it is statistically dominat to be normal in other regions. The winter in new england set records in warmth, low precipitation, and smallest number of days of snow cover. Meanwhile the southern states set records for low temps and snowfall and ice. Southern Siberia thawed out for the first time in recorded history only to be followed by the lowest temperatures ever. India is in drought while SE Asia floods in record levels. Have we already gone to far with our overshoot of convenience?[/quote]
Every generation argues that the weather is "weirder" than it was when they were younger. It's not. That's just selection bias. As the saying goes, "the good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." There's a famous passage in which Plato quotes Socrates, complaining about how children are disrespectful of their elders, lazy, don't pay attention in school, etc. These sort of biased views are nothing new; they've been going on for millennia. When you pick and choose which data to examine, you can prove anything. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." The weather is no "weirder" than it was ten, twenty, fifty, or a hundred years ago. Twenty years from now, my kids will listen to folks their age complaining about how weird the weather has become. Twenty years from then, my grandkids will do the same.
I am not certain why there is so much anger or need to argue from you MaineShark. I am asking for help in organizing and finding people interested in making lives better everywhere, encompassing not only liberty but compassion and honesty as well.
I have no interest in the breasts discussion merely for its irrelevance to the tasks at hand. Tasks that you are offered to help in but certainly not required to. As you stated in your reply, you have already begun many steps through your own personal revolucion de su mente. I offer only peace and kindness and a desire for fortuitous discussions.
It weakens my belief in the Shire Forum organization for its actions of doling out a -2 karma on me. I have not offered any hostility nor anger. In its stead, I have delivered knowledge, perspectives and alerts. If I am a negative influence on this forum, I humbly apologize and hope it can be understood that this was never any intention of mine.
A system that deals with artificial karma points from the narrow view of a few administrator elite, has just been exposed as biased, unintentionally, by its own application. Little can separate that behavior from the suppressionist actions of a Tsarist or Communist Russia, Catholic/Protestant or Nazi Germany, Monarch or Parliment led Britain and certainly not from the Nobility or Corporatocracy States of North America.
We must be certain that in our zealous pursuit of liberty we do not succumb to rights becoming synonymous with similar viewpoints to our own. In short, rather than decide as a whole whether breasts should absolutely be allowed or banned, it is left to communities to decide. If a vote for toplessness ever makes it to the ballot and it is voted down by a large majority would you still fight for this? My point being, that if 3% of the population believes toplessness is a very important right, why should that trump the other 97%?
You could start the Fascist Titty Party. The members can be referred to as TITS. Whole rallies of TITS could revolutionize humanity. I think it would win some votes in parliamentary elections.
I'll reply as requested to MaineShark.
[size=14pt]Translation: you don't like it when your hypocrisy is shown for what it is…[/size]
Please read everything I have written. There has been no instance of hypocrisy. If so please show me and I shall work towards rectifying the situation.
[size=14pt]You say one thing, one place, and then say the opposite, elsewhere.[/size]
I was stating I was under the impression that YOU were diferentiating the two. I was incorrect as stated below.
[size=14pt]No one has a right not to see things that offend them.[/size]
If I take in all that you have said on this topic, I gather that you present that anyone can do whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want regardless of any other majorities objection. That is forcing YOUR will on others.
[size=14pt]I did not say that one should be allowed, but not the other. I stated that exposed breasts (or, more to the point, nipples, since that's what seems to offend folks like you) are not nudity, whether they are male or female. Exposing genitalia is nudity; whether or not nudity is acceptable is a separate discussion.[/size]
I misunderstood what you were presenting as mentioned above.
You have made an incorrect assumption however on things that offend me. I am NOT against nipples or bare breasts or any other things as discussed further below. I believe your animosity towards any objection to bare chests is what causes your lashing out.
To the point and to be CRYSTAL clear this time, even though I have stated earlier as such, I’ll mention again that I do NOT oppose bare breasts. I merely say that if the majority does not want it in their community then that is democracy and must be respected. To do the opposite would be coercive tyranny.
To be CLEARER to the point. THERE ARE TOO MANY IMPORTANT CHANGES AT WORK IN THE WORLD TO FOCUS ON SHIRT-FREE TITS!
Whether or not nudity is acceptable is the WHOLE discussion. Who gives you the superior right to decide what is nudity over another? Once again an example of the similarity of Tsarist tyranny has been shown. Only the majority of a community can decide for public. Private should never be regulated.
[size=14pt]I take if you've never actually been any place where public nudity is commonly practiced? It's less sexual than tight clothes. Societies where nudity is not stigmatized have far lower levels of sex offenses than repressed societies.[/size]
You’ve made so many assumptions and insults in your responses and this another example.
I’ve been to many nude beaches and nudist camps. Not a single time have I been offended. Actually, I have had nothing but wonderful times. You however are taking an example of responsible adults and irresponsibly assuming everyone can be trusted the same. You may have children of your own and/or relatives of a young age. Now while you may be qualified to raise them and not be a pedder ass, that does not mean just anyone has the same qualities. Meaning, you can’t trust everyone with such responsibility. Sex offenders exist and would love a world of naked children to exploit.
What statistics of nude societies are you using? Amazonoian or Indonesian tribes? Outside of that, these civilizations you speak of have not existed since fire was being used in caves.
The world is a very different world with many layers of consciousness that are quite removed from hunt, forage, wood, fire, cook, shit, sleep. In that long ago world, yes, nudity was probably less of a problem. It should be noted though that violent rape was rampant. Not certain if it was due to nudity or not.
[size=14pt]I find it amusing that you say you won't respond to this topic, but insert phrases like, "please inform me." In any case, no, that is not a reasonable request. And if it's not a reasonable request, then it certainly isn't reasonable to demand it, as you do.[/size]
It certainly is reasonable for communities to make requests. If not then it is one government tyranny.
[size=14pt]In other words, you're just a hypocrite. If it's a right you don't care about, then it "can be viewed as inappropriate in some circumstances" and exercising it in public is just a "choice." If it's a right that you care about, then it's a horrible crime against humanity if it is not respected. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. "Women must cover their chests in public" is every bit as unacceptable as "women must cover their faces in public" or "women must walk ten paces behind their husbands in public." Bigotry is bigotry. And, while some folks are born straight, or gay, or black, or white, or whatever, everyone is born nude. So, clearly, if "being born that way" is the defining factor, then there should be nothing more acceptable than nudity. Right? No one who respects human rights will try and enforce ridiculous and nonsensical rules upon others.[/size]
Please stop calling me a hypocrite when you choose to strike at me venomously. I have never said rights that I do not care about are better left destroyed.
If you personally believe that a women wearing a shirt in public is equal to oppressive regimes requiring burqas or remaining behind husbands then in my humble opinion you are an extremist. You are very innaproppriately including horrendous societies inducing rape and pillage into your cause of toplessness. This is wrong… in my humble opinion.
I would argue that someone one that respects human rights would NOT continue to force others to become cancerous and desparate for your entertainment.
[size=14pt]I find it amusing that you've listed a whole slew of things that I don't actually use. I don't drink coffee. The sugar I use for my tea does not come in packets, because wasteful packaging is offensive to me - I have a reusable container that I refill at the store. I have a wood stove, so heating a kettle does not mandate the use of electricity. And, of course, reusable tea balls eliminate the need for tea bags. I don't drink beer. I brew my own mead using locally-sourced honey. I don't use a drop of gasoline, and can get biodiesel for my truck from a producer right here in town. I don't think I've ever used petroleum-based soap; that's a fairly disgusting idea.[/size]
I imagine you did not read the paragraph in it’s entrirety. I appreciate your effort and applaud your lifestyle choices. You would not have to list them had you read the rest of the paragraph…
Do I need to say more of mathematics? You may respond that you do not use those things. While this may be true it is irrelevant if all your neighbors are doing it. For everyone making a personal change, there are simply legions of others doing the opposite. We all will share the same fate however. That is my point of refocusing issues from toplessness to social responsibility.
Fraud/Force is initiated against numerous people every time someone makes a purchase at a store, fills their tank or turns on their electricity.
I’m not saying you have to force people to stop being swine. I’m advocating education. WE WILL ALL SHARE THE SAME FATE.
[size=14pt]Interesting. Since I see Europe as a cesspool of totalitarianism. Putting a velvet glove over a fascist dictatorship doesn't make it any nicer, unless one is so shallow that one never looks beyond the glove.[/size]
I stand by my beliefs on the States citizens. I do not remember advocating traditionally oppressive European regimes however. The only human government that aligns closest with my government model is Luang Prabang. Thank you for allowing me to share in your distaste for fascists. Although I will not loathe fascists so much after the TITS party is formed.
[size=14pt]It means that the government should get out of the way of progress, so that cleaner, less-polluting technology can be developed, and effective treatments for cancer can be found. Governments are, by far, the worst polluters, and actively work to prevent new technology from being developed which might improve efficiency and reduce pollution.[/size]
Government should never be involved in progress, I agree.
I strongly caution and actually warn that it is unsound and dangerous to blame the government for the problems you lay out in that paragraph though. Through either ignorance or misinformation you have come to a factually incorrect conclusion.
It is easy to understand how you have come to this as the lines are blurred and confusing. The truth is that private companies have been the preventers of progress. Unless that company is on top of technology then any new components would make it irrelevant. Private companies use government to make laws beneficial to themselves. They are one of the same. To eliminate government would invite the largest scumbags of wealth to impoverish us all. This is backed by 15,000+ years of historical record.
What is your solution? Rail barons or government lobbyists? Can you make a distinction between the two?
[size=14pt]Those prices are high due to taxes. Eliminate the taxes, and they go right back down. If some guy beats you to a bloody pulp once a week, and does not do the same to me, that doesn't mean that I have a special privilege; that means he is an evil jerk.[/size]
Your theory is interesting. You leave out an important part. I rewrite here.
If some guy beats me to a bloody pulp once a week PLUS steals everything I own, rapes my family and gives me cancer while NOT doing that to you BUT it is you that are benefiting from the goods stolen from me and you are watching the rape video of my family then YES, YOU are enjoying special privilege and gain TRUE bad karma. This karma is not decided by the few select persons with administrative rights. You have to accept that you empower that evil jerk and gather some of his energy in your blood goods.
Why am I receiving negative Karma from this website again?
[size=14pt]So, your suggestion is that Americans should stop buying the things that are manufactured in the third world, where the workers struggle to survive? You do realize that automatically requires those who were formerly struggling to, instead, starve to death, right? Starving to death is preferable to struggling, but surviving?[/size]
Workers struggle in the third world because they are kidnapped and forced to work in hazardous areas instead of the beautiful regions their ancestors had lived and relished for centuries. These people did not starve in the 10,000 years before industrial exploitation. There is no basis they would all starve to death if we shut down a factory employing 600 when it pollutes and murders slowly 500,000. The world has existed in quite relative harmony outside white European affairs. Starvation was minimal, yet natural when regarding bust and boom cycles. European intervention brought us the horrors of the atlantic slave trade to grow sugar. Sugar is taken for granted when its history in blood is unknown to most of the general public.
Norte Americanos NEED to understand that all their benefits of the easy street lives they live are only possible with genocide and pillage both committed in the past building the capital for capitalism and those being committed now. To throw away wrapping paper is one of the more despicable aspects of this.
The reason for the police state is to preserve commerce of goods that distract people from truths. Thereby it is stupid to rage against a machine that you help sustain power.
[size=14pt]Every generation argues that the weather is "weirder" than it was when they were younger. It's not. That's just selection bias. As the saying goes, "the good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems." There's a famous passage in which Plato quotes Socrates, complaining about how children are disrespectful of their elders, lazy, don't pay attention in school, etc. These sort of biased views are nothing new; they've been going on for millennia. When you pick and choose which data to examine, you can prove anything. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." The weather is no "weirder" than it was ten, twenty, fifty, or a hundred years ago. Twenty years from now, my kids will listen to folks their age complaining about how weird the weather has become. Twenty years from then, my grandkids will do the same.[/size]
Interestingly enough everything has gone haywire from recorded history weather patterns. Maybe it's normal. The drought will still devastate you. These patterns of strangeness are in my humble opinion a result of our insane cannibalistic mathematics of consumption. Pollution is rampant. There are islands of plastic in the middle of the atlantic and pacific. As they melt under the sun they form a liquified gel that covers the ocean, killing everything underneath. This is not to be dismissed as unimportant.
There is hyper-education now. Children read in 2nd grade what 40 year olds read in 9th. Youtube and the internet has changed everything. Kids are different and they are being taught Jersey Shore and XBOX. Artificial existence.
I really would like to contact and work with people on community based agriculture and sustainability. Spreading the knowledge of knowing where the things you use and their social impact is most important and being swept away in exchange for ignorance.
I do not want to fight with you MaineShark nor anyone else. I am interested in fruitful development of ideas. Is anyone else interested?
I hope I don't keep losing karma.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]I am asking for help in organizing and finding people interested in making lives better everywhere, encompassing not only liberty but compassion and honesty as well.[/quote]
I don't believe you are. I believe you're trying to do something that will make lives worse, destroy liberty, end compassion, and embrace dishonesty.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]It weakens my belief in the Shire Forum organization for its actions of doling out a -2 karma on me. I have not offered any hostility nor anger. In its stead, I have delivered knowledge, perspectives and alerts. If I am a negative influence on this forum, I humbly apologize and hope it can be understood that this was never any intention of mine.
A system that deals with artificial karma points from the narrow view of a few administrator elite, has just been exposed as biased, unintentionally, by its own application. Little can separate that behavior from the suppressionist actions of a Tsarist or Communist Russia, Catholic/Protestant or Nazi Germany, Monarch or Parliment led Britain and certainly not from the Nobility or Corporatocracy States of North America.[/quote]
Karma is added-to and subtracted-from by the users of the site, not "a few administrator elites." Guess that concern for "democracy" only exists when it's going your way, eh?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]We must be certain that in our zealous pursuit of liberty we do not succumb to rights becoming synonymous with similar viewpoints to our own. In short, rather than decide as a whole whether breasts should absolutely be allowed or banned, it is left to communities to decide. If a vote for toplessness ever makes it to the ballot and it is voted down by a large majority would you still fight for this? My point being, that if 3% of the population believes toplessness is a very important right, why should that trump the other 97%?[/quote]
Rights always trump privileges. If one individual on the whole planet stands upon his rights, and six billion want to infringe his rights, he is right and the six billion are wrong. There's no mathematical formula by which rights can be taken away. Liberty is based upon unanimous consent. Anything less means that some are being oppressed.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Please read everything I have written. There has been no instance of hypocrisy. If so please show me and I shall work towards rectifying the situation.[/quote]
Already explained, in detail.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]If I take in all that you have said on this topic, I gather that you present that anyone can do whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want regardless of any other majorities objection. That is forcing YOUR will on others.[/quote]
No, anyone has the right to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, wherever he wants, so long as he does not violate the rights of any other person. If he is not violating anyone's rights, he is not, by definition, forcing his will upon anyone. If someone interferes with his exercise of his rights, that individual (or group of individuals) is forcing his will upon an innocent victim.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]To the point and to be CRYSTAL clear this time, even though I have stated earlier as such, I’ll mention again that I do NOT oppose bare breasts. I merely say that if the majority does not want it in their community then that is democracy and must be respected. To do the opposite would be coercive tyranny.[/quote]
No, mob rule (what you propose) is tyranny. There is no reason why democracy "must" be respected. Quite the contrary: there is little worthy of less respect than democracy. "We outnumber you, so do what we say, or we'll kill you with our superior numbers" is the basis of democracy. It is disgusting and has no place in a free society.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]I take if you've never actually been any place where public nudity is commonly practiced? It's less sexual than tight clothes. Societies where nudity is not stigmatized have far lower levels of sex offenses than repressed societies.
You’ve made so many assumptions and insults in your responses and this another example.
I’ve been to many nude beaches and nudist camps. Not a single time have I been offended. Actually, I have had nothing but wonderful times.[/quote]
Didn't you earlier say that you "pop wood when a nice set of breasts are in [your] line of vision"…? That sort of behavior is not accepted at nude beaches and such. So, which is it?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]You however are taking an example of responsible adults and irresponsibly assuming everyone can be trusted the same. You may have children of your own and/or relatives of a young age. Now while you may be qualified to raise them and not be a pedder ass, that does not mean just anyone has the same qualities. Meaning, you can’t trust everyone with such responsibility. Sex offenders exist and would love a world of naked children to exploit.[/quote]
Again, you don't appear to know anything about these subjects. Pedophiles get off on control, not on seeing common-place nudity.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]What statistics of nude societies are you using? Amazonoian or Indonesian tribes? Outside of that, these civilizations you speak of have not existed since fire was being used in caves.[/quote]
And, yet again, you don't appear to know anything about these subjects. Nudity is common and unremarkable in much of Europe. Heck, I can drive less than an hour and be in Vermont, where there is no law against public nudity. Civilization has not collapsed.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Please stop calling me a hypocrite when you choose to strike at me venomously. I have never said rights that I do not care about are better left destroyed.
If you personally believe that a women wearing a shirt in public is equal to oppressive regimes requiring burqas or remaining behind husbands then in my humble opinion you are an extremist. You are very innaproppriately including horrendous societies inducing rape and pillage into your cause of toplessness. This is wrong… in my humble opinion.[/quote]
But it is the same thing. It differs only by degree.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]I imagine you did not read the paragraph in it’s entrirety. I appreciate your effort and applaud your lifestyle choices. You would not have to list them had you read the rest of the paragraph…[/quote]
I did read it. I just find your assumptions amusingly-ignorant.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Fraud/Force is initiated against numerous people every time someone makes a purchase at a store, fills their tank or turns on their electricity.[/quote]
You've demonstrated no examples of such.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]I stand by my beliefs on the States citizens. I do not remember advocating traditionally oppressive European regimes however. The only human government that aligns closest with my government model is Luang Prabang. Thank you for allowing me to share in your distaste for fascists.[/quote]
Declaring your distaste for fascists by announcing your support for communists, does not exactly win you any points on the subject of liberty. Communists are as bad as (or often worse than) fascists.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Government should never be involved in progress, I agree.
I strongly caution and actually warn that it is unsound and dangerous to blame the government for the problems you lay out in that paragraph though. Through either ignorance or misinformation you have come to a factually incorrect conclusion.
It is easy to understand how you have come to this as the lines are blurred and confusing. The truth is that private companies have been the preventers of progress. Unless that company is on top of technology then any new components would make it irrelevant. Private companies use government to make laws beneficial to themselves. They are one of the same. To eliminate government would invite the largest scumbags of wealth to impoverish us all. This is backed by 15,000+ years of historical record.
What is your solution? Rail barons or government lobbyists? Can you make a distinction between the two?[/quote]
Your examples of the "evils" of private enterprise, are of exactly the things I just said needed to be ended? That doesn't make much sense. I suggest you go and read up on free market economics. "Rail barons" only existed as a result of government patronage. Eliminate the government's ability to interfere in the market, and no company can get special favors, because the government doesn't have the ability to grant them.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Those prices are high due to taxes. Eliminate the taxes, and they go right back down. If some guy beats you to a bloody pulp once a week, and does not do the same to me, that doesn't mean that I have a special privilege; that means he is an evil jerk.
Your theory is interesting. You leave out an important part. I rewrite here.
If some guy beats me to a bloody pulp once a week PLUS steals everything I own, rapes my family and gives me cancer while NOT doing that to you BUT it is you that are benefiting from the goods stolen from me and you are watching the rape video of my family then YES, YOU are enjoying special privilege and gain TRUE bad karma.[/quote]
So, you're trying to say that European governments are taxing their citizens when they buy gas, and sending the money to the US? Where did you come up with a ridiculous idea like that?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Why am I receiving negative Karma from this website again?[/quote]
Because the members have, "democratically" voted you negative karma.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Workers struggle in the third world because they are kidnapped and forced to work in hazardous areas instead of the beautiful regions their ancestors had lived and relished for centuries.[/quote]
Clearly. Did you know that 300% of all workers in the third world were kidnapped and forced to work?
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]These people did not starve in the 10,000 years before industrial exploitation. There is no basis they would all starve to death if we shut down a factory…[/quote]
Except for the fact that they have built cities and have increased their populations, and don't live like they did, 10,000 years ago. The only reason they can support the population density that they have created, is by a continual influx of Western wealth. What you propose would be darn near genocide. Not that I expect someone who loves socialism to be opposed to a little genocide…
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Norte Americanos NEED to understand that all their benefits of the easy street lives they live are only possible with genocide and pillage both committed in the past building the capital for capitalism and those being committed now.[/quote]
And all the wealth that has been created? What of that? Americans live better, because, for quite a long time, the government interfered little in the creation of wealth and, even now, interferes less than it does in most other places. If I live better than you because I created new wealth for myself, that does not mean that I took anything away from you.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]Interestingly enough everything has gone haywire from recorded history weather patterns. Maybe it's normal. The drought will still devastate you. These patterns of strangeness are in my humble opinion a result of our insane cannibalistic mathematics of consumption. Pollution is rampant. There are islands of plastic in the middle of the atlantic and pacific. As they melt under the sun they form a liquified gel that covers the ocean, killing everything underneath. This is not to be dismissed as unimportant.[/quote]
You've provided no science to back up your claims. As I've said, every generation announces that weather is weirder when they are adults, than it was when they were kids. It's just confirmation bias, which is the basis for most pseudo-scientific nonsense, like intelligent design, anthropogenic global warming, homeopathy, astrology, conspiracy theories, and other such foolishness. You latch on to the data that agree with you, and ignore those data that don't.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]I really would like to contact and work with people on community based agriculture and sustainability. Spreading the knowledge of knowing where the things you use and their social impact is most important and being swept away in exchange for ignorance.[/quote]
We're already doing that. For real. Not just spouting buzz-words and blaming everyone else for our woes.
My working hypothesis here is that you're trying hard to troll the site by stringing a lot of nonsense together. But on the off-chance that you are actually sincere, but greatly confused, I am going to correct a handful of your many factual errors. I will not debate philosophy with you, because so many of your basic assumptions are wrong that even if you did prove to hold any larger vision, it would be tainted by being built on false premises. And in any case, MaineShark is much better at this stuff than I am.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]
I do not remember advocating traditionally oppressive European regimes however. The only human government that aligns closest with my government model is Luang Prabang. Thank you for allowing me to share in your distaste for fascists. [/quote]
Luang Prabang is a city of regional importance in Laos. It has the same government structure as the rest of Laos, which is a single-party communist system. Previously, it was the royal capital of Laos as a French protectorate. Prior to that, it was the capital of its own little kingdom. At no time was the city's government different than that of the rest of the country, which has always tended towards oppressive, strongly-heirarchical, authoritarian leadership. Luang Prabang is also considered to be the upper limit of navigation on the Mekong river.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]
Workers struggle in the third world because they are kidnapped and forced to work in hazardous areas instead of the beautiful regions their ancestors had lived and relished for centuries. These people did not starve in the 10,000 years before industrial exploitation. There is no basis they would all starve to death if we shut down a factory employing 600 when it pollutes and murders slowly 500,000. The world has existed in quite relative harmony outside white European affairs. Starvation was minimal, yet natural when regarding bust and boom cycles. European intervention brought us the horrors of the atlantic slave trade to grow sugar. Sugar is taken for granted when its history in blood is unknown to most of the general public.[/quote]
This is completely false. Starvation has always stalked human populations. Historically, famine has killed orders of magnitude more people than ever died directly in wars. Of course, a lot of that famine was the result of wars, but your idea that of "quite relative harmony" is ludicrous. All hard evidence suggests that war is the natural state of Man. War over land, resources, slaves, treasure, etc. is recorded as far back as archaeology can go, and it is found in every place and region, climate and terrain.
[quote author=ElMaestro link=topic=6095.msg59379#msg59379 date=1333068977]
There is hyper-education now. Children read in 2nd grade what 40 year olds read in 9th. Youtube and the internet has changed everything. Kids are different and they are being taught Jersey Shore and XBOX. Artificial existence.[/quote]
You have this completely backwards. Children now graduate high school unable to read (and understand) material that was formerly taught in grammar school. Typical US high school graduates today are largely innumerate, only semi-literate, and almost completely ignorant of history.
.