Freeman. Bitcoin. FBI. all work for the same beast

It’s not about BofA, CITI, Goldman Sachs, their Billionaire customers, and the Chinese government are likely the largest holders of BTC. It’s about control.

Lets take something that is entirely legal for a moment that you might want to sell, say pornography. If you attempt to sell porn on the internet you will run into all sorts of problems. The banks with close your account, they’re deny you access to the credit card payment processing systems, and so on. We can look first hand at examples of this happening. PornHub had credit cards and bank accounts suspended under the guise that there was child porn. While it’s undoubtedly true that there was almost certainly some amount of ‘child’ porn on the site that is true of any major player in the market and both YouTube and Facebook have substantially more of it than PornHub. Now I’m not looking to get into the porn business, but it’s apparent that government and private interests are targeting pornhub for political reasons and not because of child porn. The people targeting pornhub are part of a religious extremist group. They hate gays and they hate women. They will do whatever it takes to end the distribution of porn.

The government however has also threatened the banks with suspension of charters and the like for doing business with anybody whose ever worked in the porn business. Were you a stripper 25 years ago? Well, many porn stars have had bank accounts shut down in the last 5 years because of a letter that went out to all financial institutions saying that basically banks would have charters suspended if they didn’t cut ties (even with clients of 20+ years in legal businesses) with those connected to “sex trafficking”. Sex trafficking is a term that has basically been extended to mean not people whom were victims of actual crimes, but all persons in the sex business, including the legal sex business.

To conclude even though pornhub has always complied with the law they had credit card processors suspend accounts and could not get setup again because it was not just a credit card processor. It was the intermediary network (Visa/Master Card/etc) who did the cutting off.

Now you might be thinking, ok ok, I don’t care about the sex business. Well, what about wikileaks? It doesn’t end with one issue. It extends to a wide range of groups including political ones.

What cryptocurrencies do is it gives the power of banking back to the people. It makes the government and religious extremists and social extremists and others work harder to take out opponents they don’t like.

When they went after the TheCrypto6.com, ie Ian Freeman, Colleen Fordham, Renee Spinella, Andrew Spinella, and Nobody and Aria DiMezzo they needed 56 agents and an entire day just to seize everything. In other cases involving government all that is required is for the government to send a letter to the financial institution and magically the money is seized. Far far easier than in the case of crypto. In fact I believe they still don’t have access to all the crypto even after these persons were raided. Now sure. You might say they’ll just take a hammer to the hands of these individuals and they’ll cough up the passwords to the crypto. Yes- we know they do those things and yes these people will likely all comply. However- that is still way more effort on the governments part than sending a letter to a third party who controls your dirty fiat. Until it’s taken they also can’t stop you from spending that crypto on things the government and/or others don’t like. Want to gamble that crypto away? Well, it may not be legal, but you can do it thanks to the fact you aren’t reliant on the government to do that transaction. Want to buy porn on the internet despite the governments efforts to suspend bank accounts of those in the ‘sex trafficking’ business? No problem. Just use crypto. Feel like the entertainment cartels are screwing you over freedom wise? Well, nothing says you have to pay a ‘legitimate’ streaming provider. But all sorts of things effectively rely on users having control over their finances and you don’t have that control and freedom to spend your money where you want when you are reliant on banks and financial institutions to conduct business.

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That’s a lot of words

It’s a lot of nothing. Just like a bitcoin. As soon as the fools help setup the system, their masters will pull the blanket out from under them. The constitution was about us controlling them, gold was us controlling them. Both of those failed because people are idiots. Same shit different day.

I guess that is exactly my point. Depending on something that requires participation of the same players that have us under their thumb now seems an odd thing to depend on for Freedom. In the end, it will come down to an armed confrontation. Not saying I want that, but 10,000 years of History proves that, and there are a dozen examples in the last 20 years worldwide that prove those with the guns win.

Bitcoin as a concept of Freedom from fiat currency is understandable, but unrealistic and a distraction from reality if the issues in the physical world around us.

Bitcoin as a way to make a buck is good if you’re willing to take the risk. I jumped in when it was at $16k and jumped out last week at $61k. May jump in again, don’t know. Didn’t make a lot, but enough that it was fun and I was able to pay cash for some land.

BTC only has value as long as the government allows it to, so they can literally pull the plug any day, and they will.

There is no “beast”.

The human brain has an inherent cognitive bias for centralized top-down explanations. Concepts of emergence, evolution, free market cooperation, and decentralized action are too complex and counter-intuitive for our monkey-brains to comprehend (or at least that requires much additional effort).

In studying Economics 101, you hear the classic conceptual metaphor of the “invisible hand” seeming to guide cooperation between sufficiently-intelligent individuals, each acting in one’s own self-interest. In my essays on philosophy (most of which have been lost), I’ve expanded this metaphor to there being multiple “invisible hands” (“left”, “right”, etc), each representing different types of human incentives beyond financial profit.

Humans are also motivated by the desire for attention, social status, acceptance, affection, “egoboo”, vindication against secret insecurities, and many other kinds of psychological desires.

This is how left-wingers manage to instantly jump aboard the same lie, often a new lie every day - they are not guided by any top-down conspiracy, but by similar incentives. They all want to be seen as fashionable in their opinions, and to advance their status in the pecking order of government pull. The “invisible left hand”…

This is how my grandparents’ generation of Eastern European Jews, rich and poor, all ended up supporting the Soviet Union. This is how all government-mooching classes, rich and poor, never miss an opportunity to exaggerate any crisis to expand government power: the “”“great depression”"", ice caps melting by the year 2000, and of course the flu hysteria of the current year.

And of course all libertarians and Free Staters have their psychological biases as well. The “beltway libertarians” are usually still subject to the same statist motivations: environmentalism, the mythology of modern geopolitics, Eeevil Hitler hiding in your closet, etc. The “LGBT” libertarians constantly advocate violating NAP to advance their statist agenda (ex Aria on the last night’s show wishing to ban others from therapy for her kind of mental illness). Etc, etc, etc.

Bitcoin libertarians not only have a financial interest in advocating Bitcoin, but they want to hype their moral superiority for seeing how awesome Bitcoin was from the beginning. :roll_eyes:

Back in 2010 I wrote about the many flaws of Bitcoin, and how easy it would be for the governments to either DDoS or hijack it for their purposes. So far it’s looking like I’ve been wrong (and of course missed humongous opportunities for profit). But Bitcoin remains a major risk that could literally drop to zero whenever a major government decides to seriously attack it. The people who’ve made money with Bitcoin have my congratulations, but their success has been a matter of luck, like gambling in a casino. (And I of course have obvious biases as well.)

That said, I of course support the “Crypto 6”, and wish total defeat for the thieving communist scum that attack them!

Libman, I appreciate your candor about how you feel you were wrong about Bitcoin. It is hard for some people to admit it, so I’d like to thank you.

With regards to Bitcoin, and crypto in general, the purpose behind these types of system is that they are Decentralized Distributed Computing Networks(DDCN). Unlike other financial systems that have one to three backup systems that could be attacked by a Distributed Denial Of Service (DDOS) attack, the DDCN is far more difficult to do a DDOS attack upon, the reason for this is that unlike the other financial systems, there locations aren’t broadcasted, their identities aren’t known, and their computing resources are also unknown. If you want to do a DDOS attack, you need to know where your target is, what it’s capabilities are, and how best to over load it.

With the Bitcoin network, these machines aren’t processing transactions, in the traditional sense, they are crunching numbers. The only real interaction they have with the network is when they finish a sequence of number crunching and upload their work to the network and then download the next sequence to crunch. It’s possible for these systems to work without constant internet access, however, to my knowledge this isn’t something that is being used at the moment. I’m hesitant to say it’s improbable to take down the Bitcoin network, because technology moves very fast, but it is at least very difficult, including State actors to DDOS the Bitcoin network.

Bitcoin has flaws, just like any computer system, it’s not perfect, however, because it is just computer code it is adaptable to attempt to take it down. There are many other projects that are working on the Bitcoin blockchain to defeat what those who would want to take it down that may develop a new technology that may later be incorporated into Bitcoin.

The statement that Bitcoin could literally drop to zero I find difficult to believe. Every market based system of value can rise or fall, this includes State owned currency systems too, but as long as there is users and systems they will never be worth 0. My belief is based on the understanding of basic economic principals. Bitcoin represents an “unlimited” value amount, that is to say that Bitcoin was designed to scale not based on an arbitrary State owned and operated currency, but rather to allow the users of Bitcoin determine the price of Bitcoin. There is a hard limit to the number of Bitcoins that can exist, 14 million. Once that number is reached, the value of Bitcoin, in pizza, will increase. Each participant is free to purchase, sell, or hodl as much or as little as they want to at anyone time. Pump and dumps have happened, where a large amount of Bitcoin is purchased causing the market valuation to rise, and then that large amount has been dumped back on the market which causes it to fall.

Bitcoin value will fall, it may fall hard, it may fall fast, but it will never be worth zero, so long as the network can be maintained. There are just too many systems, to many users, and too much “value” in the network. Even if it dropped back down to parity of the US dollar, which I’m doubtful it ever will, it’s still usable.

That’s what you’re gambling on when investing in Bitcoin. The network needs to have sufficient ongoing reach and transaction performance to be useful - despite its enemies starting to do everything they can to discredit it, sabotage it, and perhaps even penalize its use. It was a much bigger gamble back in 2010, but it’s still is a gamble…

Bitcoin’s enemy-saboteurs will include all of world’s governments and their cronies (the “invisible left hand”), and they can bribe and threaten everyone else as well. Governments have hundreds of Trillions of dollars “worth” of made-up currency. Plus they have incalculable additional the buying power through brainwashing, “state security” secrecy, prosecutorial blackmail, and blunt force. Agencies like the NSA have specialized underground semiconductor factories, possibly with technologies decades ahead of the private sector (ex quantum computing). And, if all else fails, governments can make millions of people crawl under tanks and die to defend those who enslave them!

It is a tragic libertarian fantasy to believe that the commies are incompetent. Governments may be incompetent at managing “public services”, because making the “public” happy isn’t that important for maintaining and expanding their power. This is like how sharks are incompetent at climbing trees - that is irrelevant to them. But both sharks and governments are immensely competent at doing what evolution requires of them. If government power is threatened by Bitcoin, they can uproot hell itself to attack it!

Ultimately “it’s all about the Pentiums”. Whoever controls the most computational power controls Bitcoin, and can make it disappear from the Internet overnight. This includes botnets controlled through secret government-mandated backdoors in all consumer hardware.

And, beyond that, they control what the public is allowed to know and think. Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Twitter, etc will censor reality. Public schools will teach that Grandpa Lenin Biden invented the blockchain technology, and it of course needs to be regulated by the Federal Reserve. CNN will report that non-governmental blockchains were just racist terrorist pedophile pirates who wanted to kill people…

Thanks for your contribution.

Your entire diatribe holds no value to me. It’s full of nothing but conjecture, supposition, and here say. When you have something that is factual, scientific, or something resembling documented source material, let me know. Don’t bother replying to this message with anything less then the list of items required and cited, or I’ll just ignore it.

I became hooked of the forumn and shiresociety in large part because I’d hoped that I had found a group that could explain these worries that libman enumerated above.
His list of negativitys almost all seem pertinent to my hesitancy to buy crypto, so if you or anyone else here can point to a site that addresses these things [I’m sure it’s too much data for a forum], I for one would appreciate it…

My main concern is that when the central banks start their digi-currency, they will kill crypto with guns if they have to, they don’t like competition. And;
while most of humanity prolly can’t destroy crypto, I believe those guys can…

So please point to sites with answers, if you could,
tom
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