Free State Project North...and Free County Project South

General Discussion
#1

Greetings everyone. This has just been sent to the FSP Board, and I now share it with all of you. I was on the FSP board in 2004 when we chose New Hampshire as the Free State. Even though I still have a Grafton, NH address, I haven’t been able to spend as much time in the Free State as I have in the past (and that’s on me…exceedingly bad). However, there’s an interesting phenomenon that’s been occurring over the last few years in Florida that we should all take a look at, i.e. the emerging nickname of “the Free State of Florida.” Paul Mirski (one of the founders of the GOP conservative movement in NH in the 1990’s) and I are both here in Florida, and are staying in touch both with respect to what’s happening in New Hampshire and what’s happening in Florida. One of the things that’s happening in Florida, as you all are no doubt aware, is that there’s been a steady (and increasing) migration from the “blue states” to here (and to Texas, Tennessee and the Carolinas). Like New Hampshire, Florida has no state income tax. Like New Hampshire, Florida is exceedingly 2nd Amendment friendly. Like New Hampshire, Florida is trending increasingly “red state.” And like New Hampshire, Florida has some pretty good right-wing and libertarian leadership (not including Sununu or the RINO Chuck Morse of course). Among those who have “made their escape” to Florida and live here now instead of in blue-state paradises like New York, California, New Jersey and elsewhere, are included the following: President Trump and all of his immediate family; Rush Limbaugh (RIP); Tom Luongo; Shawn Hannity; Tucker Carlson; Prof. Tom DiLorenzo; Matt Gaetz, future President Ron DeSantis, Lou Dobbs, Dan Bongino, Ann Coulter, Roger Stone, “Baked Alaska” and plenty of other libertarian-friendly and right-wing friendly types (as opposed to old-style RINO Republican “conservatives”).

So what does all this have to do with New Hampshire and the Free State Project? Just this: I’d like to open a conversation about…what if the Free State Project incorporated a warm-weather political subdivision as part of the movement? There are certainly plenty of people who would like to be able to miss at least month or so of the worst part of the winter in New Hampshire. And there are certainly people in Florida who wish the Free State Project well and would like to be up there to establish residency in the summers and work for the ultimate success of the FSP. Why not create some kind of “linkage” that would benefit both the Free State Project in New Hampshire and the “Free State of Florida” (as it’s coming to be known)? There could be complementarities that just might benefit both the Free State Project AND the growing freedom movement in the state of Florida.

As it happens, I am hearing about people in Florida who are discussing just this possibility. Interestingly, although Florida is the third most populated state in the U.S., its political structure is much more “locally oriented” than that of New Hampshire. Counties in Florida, for instance, have multiple elected positions that hold strong political powers under the Florida State Constitution (including elected sheriff’s, elections supervisors, court clerks, judges, and other positions). So compare the entire state of New Hampshire (9,350 square miles) with its 870,000 registered voters, with a single warm-weather county in Florida, such as Collier in the southwest tip of the state (2,300 square miles), with 246,600 registered voters (overwhelmingly Republican). If, for instance, Collier County, Florida were to be declared “the down-south sister county to the Free State Project of New Hampshire,” there might appear to be mutual benefits for libertarians and other freedom-lovers in both locations. The two could link up and work together for mutual benefits.

What do you think, Free Staters?

—Tim Condon, founder of the Porcupine Freedom Festival and former member of the Board of Directors of the Free State Project

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#2

I think that most of the people on this board are measuring the rope out that they use to hang heretics.

I spent much of Covid in FL and I enjoyed my time here in one of the Free-est states in the Union, but that last part is the qualifying statement, “states of the Union”. Neither FL nor NH are ultimately going to be good choices to create a place that is more free and gets free-er. As long as the IRS and the FBI have you in their jurisdictions, you aren’t going to be free.

I am currently closing on a place called Coral Beach in Utila, Bay Islands. This place is very free already and with a few people buying condos and living there, we will live freedom right away, we don’t need to fight for it. My new motto is “Stop Fighting and Build”. This year, a few other opportunities will spring up too.

The Land of the Free, just isn’t anymore.

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#3

I like the idea.
I guess you guys need to pick a county and get people to move there.

#4

Perhaps all true, Mark. But we had quite a debate between 2001 and 2004 when NH was selected, over whether to include “out of the U.S.A.” locations for a Free State. The consensus was that it would be hard enough to get people to move to one state inside the U.S., and impossible to garner the kinds of numbers we needed who’d be willing to move outside the U.S. Most people wouldn’t and won’t take that step, so “inside the U.S.” it is (and has been pretty successful). Besides not wanting to be strangers in a strange land, moving outside the U.S. needs a certain adventurous attitude, and financial independence helps too. Too many requirements. For better or worse, we stay in the U.S., and specifically in New Hampshire (until an ancillary warm-weather Free County location in the U.S. is added where people can visit when and as they please).

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#5

Hi Russell. I may detect sarcasm on your part, but am not sure. I’m too old to ride into the fray again, but the people I hear about who are talking about and considering a Free County Florida project will do just that…if they decide to pull the trigger on such a venture. My personal thought is that there would be important synergies to be attained between the FSP and a Free County Project if it were chosen and moved on. Those kinds of synergies would apply whether the members of the Free State Project chose to ignore or even be hostile toward a warm-free-county-project.

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#6

nope
I like the idea
I also like Mark’s idea

some can’t move to NH
some can’t move to FL
some can’t leave (me legally right now)

after our #NHexit we can have a territory down in FL :slight_smile:

#7

I guess I didn’t see the word “County” when I replied. I checked out Moorehaven in Glades county. It is small enough that one can have an effect on county govt, not that county govt is terribly important, but it is about as important as Town govt in NH. I recommend checking that out.

I think that an English speaking place 2 hours’ flight from Miami that is already basically free, in the country with ZEDE’s (the free-est jurisdictions in the world) and is protected by a treaty of autonomy with Great Britain is a pretty good bet. I don’t actually want a bunch of movers. I want the right movers.

NH has been highly successful at getting people to move. It was the only option for a long time, but now people have choices. NH is the right move for people that want to fight the power and take back rights on a legislative level. There is a long history of conflating liberty and a fight for independence. Sam Adams sure did it. “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace”

Again, NH isn’t going to secede in 5 years. I will take all bets.

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#8

Things have changed in the World and the US since 2002. Now far more people can work remotely. This is a game changer for the Liberty game. The US is good for, among other things, making money. The path used to be make money in the US and move to a place or places that are more free. Now the path can be move to greener pastures and make money from the US remotely.

I don’t think that NH’s selling point has ever really been freedom. The difference in someone’s life in FL or NH is mitigable. If you want freedom, decide where in the world you can have the most freedoms and benefits that you want and move there. NH’s unique selling proposition is “Are you madder than Hell and don’t want to take it anymore?! Move to New Hampshire and we can all fight together!”

This is a great selling point. Personally, I don’t want to fight and thus render to my enemy, the people calling themselves government, the precious moments of my life. Remember, they are paid to fight me, I fight them for free. But this is all my choice. Y’all do what you want. I have long said, freedom is boring. What would we do with freedom?

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#9

what odds are you offering on that bet?

#10

Who’s asking for odds, Russell? I think Mark is talking straight bets. While he’s right that NH isn’t going to “secede” from the Union in the next few years, other developments—such as the recent state House vote to make Ivermectin available over-the-counter in NH—will be nearly as exciting. Enough of those types of moves, and you’ve got de facto independence under the 9th and 10th Amendments, if not de jure. (But who needs that, you know? De facto works fine!)

#11

Mark, county government in Florida is far more extensive and important vis a vis the state-level government than town governments in NH. There are multiple important elected posts at the county level in Florida (county judges, circuit judges, sheriffs, supervisors of elections, clerks of the court, etc.) that don’t translate to town elections in NH. Just FYI for everyone.

#12

Russell, if you need odds, then you don’t believe that there is an even chance. Well, I don’t either. :slight_smile:

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#13

Until, NH can do something about voters just voting in people to change all of the hard work, nothing is really worth getting too excited about. I mean great, I can take pig de-wormer. I could and did before. My life isn’t changed by this.

I recommend a constitutional amendment that makes it so that 3/4 of Reps and Senators have to approve a new law, but 50% can undo one. That would be a game changer!

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#14

OK, you are the lawyer. I bow to your knowledge. I still recommend Moorehaven and I still remind you that as long as you are in the US, the IRS and the FBI are your masters.

#15

Actually Mark, you taking pig (or horse) dewormer may HAVE “changed your life.” You may be ALIVE now instead of dead by virtual of taking Ivermectin. (I had the Covid shit, but didn’t have any Ivermectin; should have stocked up ahead of time; fortunately it wasn’t too bad, and only kicked my ass for 2 or 3 weeks before I powered through it…)

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#16

Not only the IRS and FBI, Mark. Also the CIA, DEMs, CDC, NIH, GOP, DOD, OSHA…and SCORES (if not HUNDREDS) of other malicious agglomerations wielding power in the U.S. today.

#17

yes
I was hoping you were really confident and would give me 100 to 1 odds.

#18

Florida may have some things going for it, but people like Ann Coulter, Donald Trump, and Sean Hannity are hardly friends of liberty. I find their presence in Florida to be no more of a recommendation for considering it a potentially free state, than if you’d told me Bernie Sanders, Alexandra Ocasia-Cortez, and Anthony Fauci were living there.