Building A New World - A Freer World

General Discussion
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#1

One of the things I like to discuss is the actually practicality of a freer world – The technically details. When libertarians/Ancaps, etc, speak of how a world would be freer and how certain functions and services the state provide could be replaced by voluntary action, there’s always that one question that comes up: How?

So let’s discuss how! There are no crazy ideas, only untested theories. So tell me your craziness (ha) and normal idea how our world would look and function without the state. This thread can be as broad or as narrow as you wish, but here are some topics I would like to discuss and probably will:

  • Education
  • Transportation
  • Defense
  • Infrastructure
  • Commerce
#2

One to the first questions that comes up, and what I think is one of the most interesting topics to talk about, how will cities and communities function without a centralized authority. Much like roads, to most people, cities are these things that seem to complicated for a company or a group of people to create – or at least, once developed, to difficult to manage once it reaches a certain size and population.

Questions:

  1. Would cities in a free society still look like current American/Western cities, urban sprawl and all. Or, would free cities be smaller and more compact? Taking into consideration that most american cities are heavily regulated by city governments and zoning boards. And most modern american cities were designed around the car.
  2. Would the infrastructure for a free city be decentralized amongst competing firms, or would a centralised authority (Private or not) control most of it? Could a city with decentralised infrusture work?
  3. Would cities in a free society evolve naturally over time or be planned by City building firms?
#3

There have been many ideas for the future, but I haven’t seen any address the root causes of why most humans congregate towards large government structures to begin with.

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#4

I think it has a lot to do with humans being social and forming tribalistic communities. We tend to give a lot of weight to “leaders” of these organisations. Whether out of security, for resources needs, personal benefit, or just laziness, I think it’s a survival trait that has evolved over time. Unfortunately, the early anarchist of our species were probably bludgeon to death by members of a statist society. The statist gene out competed the anarchist one.

#5

It has crossed my mind more than once that “we” may be genetic outliers, for better or worse. If that is really the case, then it’s a problem moving forward no matter how you think about it. The Free State Project could never work as it was conceived, for example.

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#6

The best you can probably do is have an intentional community of like minded people so your neighbors think like you.

If you can’t make a libertarian intentional community work, don’t try it with a town or a state and think it will work out well.

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#7

I think communities/settlements form one of two ways: 1) planned, and 2) unplanned. People tend to form communities naturally for various reasons. It would be hard to prevent this congregation of people. Whether they are libertarian or not. I don’t think you could stop this from happening

So, let’s say, everyone on this forum was abducted by aliens and moved to another planet with a very similar environment to earth’s. Our individual survival would depend on how well we worked together. Being in groups/tribes/communities/etc is a survival mechanism, one where humans excel at pretty well. Hence why we are the dominant species on the planet and not tigers.

Does a group/village/town/city/region/world automatically have to descend into statism? I don’t think so.

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#8

I totally agree with the genetic outliers. I believe libertarians (This includes all subgroups to a certain extent) are genetically more inclined to liberty than others. From an early age, even though I was raised as a catholic democrat, I remember rebelling against my parents, the church, school, etc. My brother is a libertarian as well. My sister, not so much.

I disagree that is wouldn’t work as far as the free state project is concern. if there were a diaspora of libertarians that all moved to a certain location, that would concentrate the “liberty gene” and produce more libertarians. If it isn’t really a gene that controls it, but more of a cultural pressure, then having more liberty minded people in a certain area would produce more of the same.

I think a libertarian society would work. Nothing is perfect, but that’s the beauty of the system: If something doesn’t work, it can be changed or abandoned for a better way. Unlike our current system controlled by government. Nothing ever changes.

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#9

I saw a guy on Charlie Rose once, I think, who suggested something like a freedom gene. The idea was that the people who came to the new world were the people who wanted to get away from state domination and build a world to their own liking. I’m not sure that individualist attitude is necessarily principled, though, and with success come people who just want to leverage the opportunity that is created.

Also, I think a lot of my libertarian thought came from my education. I was naturally a rebel, as a child, and encouraged to think for myself. I was pretty hard on my teachers.

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#10

That was exactly my thinking. Although this is probably a poor example, but when I think of society in the future I think of the game second life. In the game before it went full control. It was complete anarchy, yet everyone conducted themselves without a central governing body. Everyone was an individual, I believe that can be replicated again. I may not know history, but I have noticed as we go further in the future our morals change towards the positives. Would you agree? Of course there is corruption, but that’s because all countries of the world have governments with monopolies.
My question would be, would it be easier to start from scratch and build an anarchist society, or deconstruct down?

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#11

I think the real problem is herding enough cats together to make it happen either way. Maybe the best anarchist society you can have in practical reality these days is a log cabin on 40 acres.

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#12

I heard something similar a while ago, then my immediate thought was that it explains the current state of Europe…those genetics with the strongest will to survive and genuine novel talent got the fuck out.

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#13

If it’s genetics, then it’s a problem because active libertarians probably have one of the lowest birth rates around. If it’s cultural pressure, then it’s an uphill battle without playing dirty propaganda tricks with people’s heads like the opposition does.

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#14

Quote from AlaLoca above: "In the game before it went full control. It was complete anarchy, yet everyone conducted themselves without a central governing body"
Without a doubt we need to go “full Anarchy”. Start from scratch ? Sure. Only one problem. How can we start from scratch with Anarchy if Anarchy is all that has ever existed anyways ? Anarchism IS the way it is. It will always be there. It always has been, The big lie is what needs to be removed which is “authority”. “Authority” has never existed. It can not exist. No one can possess the right to rule. Billions have been led to believe that some magical power is bestowed onto certain people. It’s not. Anyone who has been successfully duped by the belief in “authority” is under control of a GANG. Those who disavow the belief in “authority” are also living under threat of a GANG. Can’t say it enough…GANG.
What is the only way to defeat gangs ? I’ll give you a hint: It won’t be suggested by people that are actually working for the wrong side.
Samm

#15

Lots of interesting comments above.

There is no shame in wanting to be governed - if by governed we mean wanting many aspects of one’s life to be managed for them. There is shame in forcing choices on others.

I’ve spent some time thinking about society; specifically thinking on the interactions that pertain specifically to a homogeneous group and more so, the interactions that end up being beneficial to that group. I’ll try to follow up with more on that topic.

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#16

Hmmm. We’re being force-fed “democracy”. Do any of the statists, especially the voters look ashamed of what they’ve done to those wanting freedom ?
Samm

#17

MightyMikeOct '17:
“One of the things I like to discuss is the actually practicality of a freer world – The technically details. When libertarians/Ancaps, etc, speak of how a world would be freer and how certain functions and services the state provide could be replaced by voluntary action, there’s always that one question that comes up: How?”

Maybe it’s Independence that’s the key ?
I started a post pertaining to Independence with minimal responses. I figured,upon entering the Shire forums, supposedly full of people desiring freedom, there would be much more talk about Independence and people proudly talking about the different ways they use it.(besides Bitcoin)
I think that if you truly want freedom, you must have a strong urge to become Independent to as many “things” or “services” as you can. Whether individually or with a collective group. Seems like folks that want government don’t want Independence. So if they trade Independence for “government” they are giving up their freedom. Along with everyone else’s. Becoming dependent on “government” is actually sacrificing your freedom. Becoming Independent is refusing to let the GANG have your freedom.
Biggest problem I see is that there are “laws” made by the GANG that make it “illegal” to be Independent in many different aspects of our lives. Whether it’s “illegal” or not, what are some ways we can be Independent and starve the leach ? Water,Food,Shelter,Teaching our kids,Self Defense, Making our own electricity ( if we need any), Heating our homes. etc… Did I mention self defense: What if we decided on our own/ Independently who our ENEMIES actually are without input from the media,schools,churches,gov’t gang ?
Can we realize on our own who our real enemies are ? And act accordingly ? This may be another key to a freer world.
Samm

#18

You have kids?

#1. Don’t buy property in a town/city with zoning. If you do, you are sending the market a signal that you are ok with zoning.

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#19

A big mass of land full of too many consumers, and not enough producers. Consumers crying for freedom is utter hypocricy.
Samm

#20

I think human nature is human nature. Let him who hath no sin cast the first stone. People might be more honest today, because they’re afraid technology will catch them.

One presidential candidate can bleach bit cell phones and destroy hard drives, but don’t talk to any Europeans.

The whole world is @#$%& up. I don’t see much morality anywhere.