[quote]The only meaning of yours I got is that the opinions of some people matter more than the opinions of other people.
Or put another way, "everyone is the public, but some people are more public than others."[/quote]
:roll: another case of cant see the forest for the trees
[quote]You should do that![/quote]
Actually i do do that lol
[quote]It's pretty clear that if you piss everyone off, not only are you not going affect the body politic, you won't even win hearts and minds. If it looks like you're just a bunch of snotty kids who want to drink and smoke pot, and who refuse to get along in society (that's the message people get from that - when you break laws), they won't ever consider your positions. Even if the damned federal government does finally go bankrupt, and new governance needs to be established, and you've got a chance for a fresh start, the libertarians' wet dream, one of the first things people will know for sure is that YOUR ideas are NOT the ones to be used. The first thing they'll do is go after you if they feel like they have to.
Do I sound like I'm presuming too much? Well, I'm not. Statism is thoroughly engrained in the vast majority of people's minds. And they view following the law as one of the most basic ways of getting along with everyone else in society - not your guys' strict, weird definition of non-agression, property rights, or what have you. They view flouting the law as a sign that you are not willing to work together with other people in a society.[/quote]
Thank you Brundlefly for clarifying my meaning
I'm not taking issue with the fact that it's a bad idea to piss "everybody" off; obviously that's true. I'm taking issue with the question of why some people count as "everybody," when they're obviously not.
It has been the case that anytime the status quo is threatened, some people will love you and some will hate you.
[quote]I'm not taking issue with the fact that it's a bad idea to piss "everybody" off; obviously that's true. I'm taking issue with the question of why some people count as "everybody," when they're obviously not.
[/quote]
If you read my message more carefully.you would notice that i did not state that smoking in the common would look bad to everybody.I said it would look bad to quite a few people.The only time i said "everybody" is when i stated that picking up trash is for the good of everybody,as in it helps the public,it helps the town.It also show people that you and free keeners as a group care.
[quote]It has been the case that anytime the status quo is threatened, some people will love you and some will hate you.[/quote]
That is very true.But I would think of it as winning some people over to your side from the enemy side.There nothing wrong at all with gaining some supporters,no matter how few,to your side and to see your side of things.You wouldnt lose any,supporters, i know that.And if you did by chance lose any.I bet you would gain more than you lost.
[quote author=Givemeliberty link=topic=4314.msg48056#msg48056 date=1291405757]
If you read my message more carefully.you would notice that i did not state that smoking in the common would look bad to everybody.
[/quote]
No you didn't state that. BrundleFly referred to pissing "everyone" off. And in response to BrundleFly, you replied, "Thank you Brundlefly for clarifying my meaning." So I (obviously mistakenly) assumed that what BrundleFly said was your meaning.
So I'm back to my original dilemma: you said that looking bad to "quite a few people" is a bad thing thing because those people are "the public," implying that people who are not in that group of "quite a few people" are not "the public."
Why are some people "the public" and others aren't?
Do you thrive on twisting peoples words and statements or do you just like nit picking?Pretty much like a cop tactic to me,which, you being a libertarian would be personally against because since that tactic could of possibly have been used on you at one time or another.So in truth that would make you a hypocrite and not a libertarian.Thats been tried on me before too,it didnt work and i laughed in the cops face?I'm not the one doing the implying here,you are.The public = the people,the masses,whether one person or 100 ,1000, 1000000.They continue being the masses whether they see you smoking in the common or not.Theyre the public = people.Whats worse,having 5 people join free keene just because you smoke weed in the common and are trying to buck the system or,having 25 people, keene citizens, start to look up to your group of libertarians for doing simple things for the community instead of hanging out in the common getting stoned.I smoke myself so im not against it.Its common sense and if you cant see it i feel for you.
[quote author=Givemeliberty link=topic=4314.msg48092#msg48092 date=1291438890]
Do you thrive on twisting peoples words and statements or do you just like nit picking?Pretty much like a cop tactic to me,which, you being a libertarian would be personally against because since that tactic could of possibly have been used on you at one time or another.So in truth that would make you a hypocrite and not a libertarian.Thats been tried on me before too,it didnt work and i laughed in the cops face?I'm not the one doing the implying here,you are.The public = the people,the masses,whether one person or 100 ,1000, 1000000.They continue being the masses whether they see you smoking in the common or not.Theyre the public = people.Whats worse,having 5 people join free keene just because you smoke weed in the common and are trying to buck the system or,having 25 people, keene citizens, start to look up to your group of libertarians for doing simple things for the community instead of hanging out in the common getting stoned.I smoke myself so im not against it.Its common sense and if you cant see it i feel for you.
[/quote]
Let's see if I understand. First you said this (typos and all):
[quote]you guys in keene wont be going anyplace to fast if you do not have the publics support.[/quote]
Are you not saying that support of "the public" is a requirement for success? Or am I twisting your words? If support of "the public" is a requirement, then it must be important to know what "the public" is.
You yourself just said "public = people." Am I twisting your words? If the public is people, then the next question is which people?
There are only two possible answers to that question: either "the public" is all the people, or else it's just some of the people. It has to be one or the other, right? Do you disagree with that?
Let's consider the first option. Are you saying that "you guys in keene wont be going anyplace to fast if you do not have the support of all the people?" If that's the case, then we might as well give up now, because you can never make everyone happy.
Let's consider the second option: Are you saying that "you guys in keene wont be going anyplace to fast if you do not have the support of some of the people?" It seems like this is what you meant, because you wrote (again, the typos are yours):
[quote]…its going to look bad to quite a few people and,who are those people?Theyre the public[/quote]
It sure seems like you're saying that success requires support of some people, and those people are the public. The other people whose support is not required are not the public.
And my question (for the third or fourth time now) is why you consider the opinions of some people important enough that they get to be the public, but certain other people's opinions aren't as important–they don't get to be "the public."
And in response to my very reasonable question, these are your responses:
[list]
[li]I thrive on twisting your words[/li]
[li]I like nit picking[/li]
[li]I use cop tactics[/li]
[li]I am a hypocrite[/li]
[li]I am guilty of "implying" (but you're not)[/li]
[li]Whatever your point is is common sense.[/li]
[/list]
You obviously feel very strongly about whatever it is you believe, but you sure haven't answered my question about why you think some people's opinions matter more than others'.
Tell you what pal,heres an idea.Why dont you take your head out of your ass and go take a flying fuck for yourself.Can I clarify that any better for you?Do you need help with it? Now maybe you'll wake up and realize why 4 people have you on ignore.Freedom is a team effort.You seem to like to ostracize some people,seems to me that isnt any way to win a thing including freedom.Pick apart my posts any way you like. As of now, to me, youre irrelevant.I'm going to take you as a fool,you are no longer worthy of my further attention.If your survival instinct is as good as your common sense i'll give you 5 minutes when the shit hits the fan.Good luck ;D
[quote author=Givemeliberty link=topic=4314.msg48095#msg48095 date=1291444446]
Tell you what pal,heres an idea.Why dont you take your head out of your ass and go take a flying fuck for yourself.[/quote]
Tsk… That's not debate!
[quote author=Givemeliberty link=topic=4314.msg48095#msg48095 date=1291444446]
Now maybe you'll wake up and realize why 4 people have you on ignore.
[/quote]
Those 4 people don't count. They're not "the public."