Author Topic: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?  (Read 6487 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« on: January 14, 2011, 02:18:59 AM »
I'm curious.  We know that when a cop arrests a videographer for a wiretapping violation, it's false arrest. We know that when a judge conducts and concludes a hearing and/or trial when corpus delicti doesn't exist, he's committing a crime. We know that when a cop arrests you and doesn't immediately take you to a magistrate to determine if the arrest is legal, but instead takes you to jail for booking and incarceration as though you are already guilty, that cop changed an arrest into an aggravated kidnapping.

Freedom activists are willing to go thru so much difficulty, harrassment, inconvenience and outright danger, just to make New Hampshire a place to live free.

So I'm curious.. Why are freedom activists not willing to go thru a little bit of effort to track down where the grand jury meets and present criminal charges directly to the grand jury in order to seek indictments against cops, prosecutors and judges for violating your rights?

Offline resident Troll

  • Negative Reputation
  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 03:41:27 AM »
Because free keeners are cowards....... and later in life the criminal records's not going to help them get jobs, housing, money, nor publicity. It's a passing phase, it's happened many times in history.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 12:29:51 PM »
I don't believe that people who exercise their rights and are willing to suffer for it at the hands of heartless government criminals can be referred to as cowards.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 01:13:23 PM »
Why do the courts make the time and place of grand jury meetings a virtual secret? Because cops, prosecutors and judges don't want citizens knowing where to go to present criminal charges against them.  I think that's unacceptable.  Who wants to be the first in modern times to find the grand jury and present those charges?

Offline FTL_Ian

  • Free Keene Crew
  • Shire Moderator
  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7165
  • Karma: 52
  • Gender: Male
  • Peaceful Evolution
    • View Profile
    • Free Talk Live
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 01:56:06 PM »
It's no secret.  What you suggest has already been tried.  Details are here:
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=1977.0

It wouldn't hurt to try again, but Sam, who was leading the effort before, was pretty disheartened and gave up.  No one has been interested since.  Most activists here do not have legal experience and aren't interested in or don't believe in using the system against itself.  They probably don't believe it will work.

Perhaps you can move here and prove them wrong by going after these guys.  I'd be happy to help you do the grand jury outreach.
150+ Reasons to Move to Keene in the Shire: http://move.freekeene.com

Offline mackler

  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Karma: -185
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 03:15:49 PM »
I would like to see someone get a grand jury indictment on their own, directly.  Someone who is not a public prosecutor.  Seeking one against a government official is probably not the best first step.  I would suggest a plain old criminal, not someone who has connections with the court, but someone for whatever reason the system is not prosecuting for their crimes.  That seems like the reason the public would have access to a Grand Jury.  So a private citizen can say, "look, the public prosecutor isn't doing anything about this felony.  So I'm here instead."
It happened once that men sat together in a boat at sea.  Whereupon one of them drew forth an awl and began to bore into the boat's bottom.

"Stupid one," the others cried at him, "what are you doing?"

"And what concern of it is yours?" he answered.  "Is it not under my own seat that I am making the hole.

Offline AntonLee

  • the Beast from the East
  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 957
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Chop it down, with the edge of my hand
    • View Profile
    • check out my photography!
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 06:47:58 PM »
because when you shoot them, people get upset for some reason.
I am as desirous of being a good neighbor as I am of being a bad subject.

http://antonlee.redbubble.com

Offline svcowboy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 09:30:01 AM »
Quote
Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?

Because everyone knows that governments have little use for justice.  If the people dont demand it they wont get it.  Give the sheeple a few reprobates in the news to spout their two minutes hate at from time to time and they'll convince themselves that justice is being done.
"We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it."-JFK

Offline free libertarian

  • Longtime Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2011, 11:16:38 AM »
I would like to see someone get a grand jury indictment on their own, directly.  Someone who is not a public prosecutor.  Seeking one against a government official is probably not the best first step.  I would suggest a plain old criminal, not someone who has connections with the court, but someone for whatever reason the system is not prosecuting for their crimes.  That seems like the reason the public would have access to a Grand Jury.  So a private citizen can say, "look, the public prosecutor isn't doing anything about this felony.  So I'm here instead."


  Accessing the grand jury...do you mean to bring charges at a grand jury that has been called by the court or form a grand jury of your own...I'm interested in learning more about how to do this. 


Offline mackler

  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Karma: -185
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 12:42:21 PM »
  Accessing the grand jury...do you mean to bring charges at a grand jury that has been called by the court or form a grand jury of your own...I'm interested in learning more about how to do this. 

The first.  How to do it depends on what state you're in.  Some states expressly forbid private citizens from talking to a grand jury, but I don't think New Hampshire is one of those.  There are other factors.  It might help to have a justice of the peace go along with you.  I really don't know all the details, but it could be an example of improving justice by putting it in the hands of the victim or a private prosecutor, the way it used to be.
It happened once that men sat together in a boat at sea.  Whereupon one of them drew forth an awl and began to bore into the boat's bottom.

"Stupid one," the others cried at him, "what are you doing?"

"And what concern of it is yours?" he answered.  "Is it not under my own seat that I am making the hole.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 04:37:12 PM »
  Accessing the grand jury...do you mean to bring charges at a grand jury that has been called by the court or form a grand jury of your own...I'm interested in learning more about how to do this. 

The first.  How to do it depends on what state you're in.  Some states expressly forbid private citizens from talking to a grand jury, but I don't think New Hampshire is one of those.  There are other factors.  It might help to have a justice of the peace go along with you.  I really don't know all the details, but it could be an example of improving justice by putting it in the hands of the victim or a private prosecutor, the way it used to be.

I'm afraid that we've been misled by those who have a vested interest in having us misled.

When the fifth amendment, which guaranteed that grand juries can never be abolished, was passed, the number of public prosecutors in the entire united states could be numbered on two hands. There were absolutley no prosecutors on the frontier. So who presented criminal complaints to grand juries?  The citizens themselves.  When a crime was committed against a person, a citizen, usually the victim himself, would present the criminal complaint directly to the grand jury to seek indictment, especially against public officials who committed crimes.   This is the way it was done everywhere in the US until the beginning of the 20th century, but as those who crave power and control began to take conterol of our nation, the courts began to make rules to restrict citizen access to the grand jury. Barring citizen access didn't become common in the US until the middle of the 20th century at the same time that federal, state and local government began to routinely violate the constitution.  What a coincidence.

The grand jury is not a part of the judicial branch of government. Only the grand jury can make rules as to how it will receive and hear complaints and witnesses. It is a totally independent and autonomous body of citizens who's only job is to review all criminal complaints to determine if there is probable cause to present those charges to the courts.  An indictment is basically a statement that the grand jury agrees with the complaintant that a crime has probably occured and that the court can proceed to hear arguments to determine if the charges merit a trial.  The grand jury was created to protect us from abusive government, including the courts.  Any court rules that are intended to manage the grand jury process are not only invalid, but illegal.  If the courts had the authority to manage the grand jury process, it would defeat the purpose for having grand juries in the first place.  So screw the court's rules.

When our, or another person's, rights are violated, we have a duty to present these charges to the grand jury in the exact same way that the prosecutor does. After all, the prosecutor is simply presenting charges in exactly the same way that the citizens of this country did before there were any prosecutors. The existance of a paid prosecutor doesn't negate your duty to present criminal charges when a crime has been committed.

Now it's a sure bet that the black-robed criminals, called judges, don't want you presenting charges to the grand jury, because they know that if that happens, they'll be the ones most likely to be indicted. The prosecutor shares this sentiment, so they have cops guarding the entrance where the grand jury meets to prevent citizen access.  You have to tell them that you have business with the grand jury and that they need to step aside.  Refusal to do so is obstruction of justice.  It just gets more fun from there.

Randy Kelton, a Texan, is a man who has done alot of field work in this area. He's been arrested four times by the cops for this very reason. Mr. Kelton follows a very specific process.  On one occasion, he came to the city building to present a criminal complaint against a sheriff's deputy.   He presented the complaint first to the cops, who refused to take the complaint. Then to the DA, who refused to take the complaint.  At that point he was ordered to leave, but instead chose to seek out the district judge to present the complaint. At that point the cops arrested him on the false charge of assault. All four times he was arrested, the charges were immiediately dropped, because DA's don't like to explain that an arrest occured because a citizen refused to submit to obstruction of justice.  Even the super-corrupt federal courts still tend to frown upon that kind of thing.  It was too late for the DA's to avoid trouble, however, becasue Mr. Kelton file criminal complaints directly with the grand jury against the cops and DA along with the original complaint.  Presenting a criminal complaint against the DA bars him and his associates from being in the grand jury room while you're presenting your complaints. Nifty.

There are many examples of official criminality which warrants criminal complaints.  For example, you would file criminal charges against a cop for committing an unlawful arrest for recording in public.  Against a cop who stopped you at a roadblock absent probable cause.  Against the judge and DA for prosectuting and conducting a trial absent corpus delicti. Or for example, against the judge who made that court order barring recording in the court building. The judge lacked all jurisdiction to make any order at all, because he lacked a trial or any legal proceeding that would have granted him judicial authority to issue an order.  Even if there was a court case to grant the judge judicial authority to issue an order, such orders can only apply to the parties of the case over which the judge presides.  Dave Ridly can file a criminal complaint, not only against the judge who issued the illegal order, but also against the cop who arrested him, the judge who conducted the trial and the DA who prosecuted it.  If a cop arrested you and didn't immediately take you to a have a hearing before a magistrate to determine if your arrest was lawful, but instead took you to jail to be booked as if you had already seen the magistrate, you can file criminal charges against the cop for aggravated kidnapping.

Offline cyberdoo78

  • Longtime Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • May peace and love be upon you always.
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 08:58:14 PM »
That was great reading rberkeypilerj.

As Ian stated, the problem is that there are not enough legally trained/educated activists available to start pushing back the layers of BS. The question begs to be asked, is it worth the time to pursue this, or just wait till government implodes by itself? I'm going to read more about Randy Kelton because this is interesting to me. Perhaps afterward I'll have a better idea.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 03:41:53 PM »
That was great reading rberkeypilerj.

As Ian stated, the problem is that there are not enough legally trained/educated activists available to start pushing back the layers of BS. The question begs to be asked, is it worth the time to pursue this, or just wait till government implodes by itself? I'm going to read more about Randy Kelton because this is interesting to me. Perhaps afterward I'll have a better idea.

I don't beleive that it takes legal training. It doesn't take legal training to make a notarized criminal complaint. It also doesn't take legal training to present a criminal complaint to a grand jury.  What's needed is for people to get behind this and initiate the strategy to begin breaking down this illegal wall between the grand jury and the people which government has created to protect itself from accountability.

I hope people don't wait until the government implodes, which I too believe will happen, because the system that replaces it will be far worse than anything that exists now. Those who hate liberty now far outnumber those who love it - so we can guess who'll make the replacement system.

We must use the tools that the founders put in place for us.  I don't know how many keeniacs have connections in the NH government, but getting some laws passed to reaffirm the citizen right of access to grand juries wouldn't hurt.


Offline mackler

  • Experienced Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
  • Karma: -185
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 03:56:34 PM »
It also doesn't take legal training to present a criminal complaint to a grand jury.

If it's not a felony, it doesn't even require a grand jury.  In New Hampshire, a private citizen can file a criminal complaint with a district court.  The catch is that the public prosecutor has the option of saying noli prosequi to it, so it probably won't work against any of the prosecutor's friends.  But the New Hampshire Supreme Court has recognized private criminal prosecutions.

Why you would want to do it is another issue, since if you win, you don't get anything.
It happened once that men sat together in a boat at sea.  Whereupon one of them drew forth an awl and began to bore into the boat's bottom.

"Stupid one," the others cried at him, "what are you doing?"

"And what concern of it is yours?" he answered.  "Is it not under my own seat that I am making the hole.

Offline rberkeypilejr

  • Recent Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why do we let cops, prosecutors and judges get away with crime?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 04:36:04 PM »
It also doesn't take legal training to present a criminal complaint to a grand jury.

If it's not a felony, it doesn't even require a grand jury.  In New Hampshire, a private citizen can file a criminal complaint with a district court.  The catch is that the public prosecutor has the option of saying noli prosequi to it, so it probably won't work against any of the prosecutor's friends.  But the New Hampshire Supreme Court has recognized private criminal prosecutions.

Why you would want to do it is another issue, since if you win, you don't get anything.


That's why when there's no felony, you can't even be dragged into a court, because ther's no valid charging document.

The only thing that can qualify as a valid charging document is a grand jury indictment.  This is why a court can't even hear a case absent corpus delicti.  A crime of any kind requires a victim.  It requires a victim to present a complaint to the grand jury. It takes a grand jury to present a valid charging document; the indictment, to grant the court the jurisdiction to hear the charges. Without the charging document, the court lacks the jurisdiction to hold a trial for a felony, misdemeanor, or ham and cheese sandwich, or whatever the corrupt bastards want to call it.

This is why governments can't criminalize anything they want.  They can't make refusing to register your bicycle a crime.  They may call it a misdemeanor, or my favorite - a violation, but if they drag you into court, it's a crime.  A crime is only a crime when there's a victim.  To put a citizen on trial for any charge lacking corpus delicti is a crime in and of itself.

But the government today can do whatever it wants because the people have forgotten their rights and responsibilities.  These are lawless days we live in.

The courts allow!?!?   Screw the NH courts.  We have the right and the duty to present criminal complaints to the grand jury.  What the courts say matters for nothing.

And shouldn't we be willing to do our duty, not only if it means we gain nothing, but even if it means we lose everything?  Shouldn't we be prepared to lose everything, if it means that our children can live in a land that's free? There are many people in the ground today; their lives cut short, because they did just that.